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Thursday, December 14, 2017

Peace Talk Overture: Hamas Kills Four Israeli Civilians

The Lunacy of this Conflict Defies Western Logic because It's not In the West

Hamas gunmen have killed four Israeli civilians, but not in their Gaza constituency, in the West Bank as a prelude to peace talks this week in Washington DC. The crime casts an ominous pall over the confab, and further illustrates the difficulty in establishing anything other than a state of anarchy in the occupied territories.

Stanley Kubrick's controversial film, A Clockwork Orange, symbolized a world gone mad and increasingly anarchic...something like it is today when how we think things should be aren't that way, when right is wrong and left is right. There's probably no better example of this lunacy than the endless Arab-Israeli hostility now morphed into the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

There are so many absurdities to this ongoing lukewarm war it difficult knowing where start. But a good place is the new planned peace talks between the two sides, or should I say one and a half sides since it's doubtful Hamas, the rulers of Gaza, will attend. This apparently doesn't matter, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas will be there trying to at least negotiate a half of a Palestinian state for the West Bank of the Jordan River.

If this isn't absurd enough, every time one of these negotiations takes place the media hype centers around what the Israelis, the victors in the 1967 and 1973 wars, will offer. But the meetings always end with the Palestinians, the losers, dictating their terms to Israel and then rejecting what's on the table. Rational people who constantly get the crap knocked out of them don't make conditions for peace, they just want the violence to stop. This, unfortunately, isn't Palestinian reasoning.
Could Peace be the Worst Thing for Israel?
Not nutty enough? Try this on about Israel. It could be argued the worst thing that could happen to Israel and best thing for the Arabs, outside of a nuclear attack, would be peace. Even though most Arab nations now accept this non Arabic country, deep down they would love it to go away so they could resume fighting each other.

Peace makes softies out of nations, they become decadent and weak. But, maintaining a Spartan state keeps the population on its toes with a goal of survival. So, the best way for the Arabs to eventually topple Israel is making peace with it...A Clockwork Orange. And you can bet Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu knows this. He would rather have no peace than peace on a mediocre deal.

What we in the West fail to understand, is that the Arabs will never really accept a non Islamic, non Arabic country on what it considers its exclusive turf...or in this case sand. In their timeless mind set, they feel the passing generations and even centuries will make things right again.

So back to the Palestinians...much of the negotiations will be about borders and refugees. Before the 1948 War Palestine was one entity and Gaza was part of Egypt. When a UN ceasefire was brokered in 1948, the ceasefire line was meant to be a temporary border between the two sides...there never has been any sort of attempt to settle on permanent borders.

Then, the 1967 war created the present modified temporary borders with the addition of the Syrian Golan Heights, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, from Egypt, as well as a portion of the Sinai Desert, which was returned to Egypt. The people in the occupied territories are either native residents or refugees, such as most of the Gazans. Egypt didn't want Gaza returned. Do you wonder why?

When Israel won its War of Independence, despite all the predictions of doom, the liberal establishment was over the moon. Liberals always need an underdog to champion and there had been few better underdogs than those historically candy ass, intellectual, violin playing, money making Jews. But a major weak point for liberals, some socialists and communists, is they don't like winners, just underdogs. So, when Israel continued to win wars against the Arabs, the liberal love affair slowly ended. Israel was no longer seen as an underdog. It was trying to become part of the establishment.

Yes, but there were still only a few million Israelis against 250 million Arabs...tough odds. Ah, but when some of those Arabs became refugees or residents under Israeli occupation the Left had its opening to separate Israel from the greater Arab mass and concentrate on being the Palestinians' new champion. Admittedly, the Israelis themselves aided in this repositioning by its 1982 Lebanon Invasion that sparked the first Arab uprisings and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict was under way.
The Great Liberal Hypocrisy
Aside from all this history, there's probably no greater misplaced patronage and hypocrisy than the liberal love affair with the Palestinians. On one hand many of these same people are backing our war in Afghanistan solely on the need to secure and safeguard women's rights from Taliban brutality. And yet, they condemn and boycott Israel, a social democracy with equal rights for women, for ill treatment Palestinians, a people who look upon women as livestock, homosexuals as dead-men and women walking and infidels as less than equal than them.

More Palestinian women die annually in so-called honor killings by their own families than they do from Israeli reprisal bombardments. It could be said most Arabic culture, aside from their religion, would be a good fit for the US hard right red state mob with its love of traditional family values and deep rooted male chauvinism.

Now, top this off with the religious and tribal based racism throughout the entire Muslim world and the western support given to the Palestinians is mind boggling.

On the other hand, this lunacy continues, with impassioned vocal and financial backing for Israel from the same conservative region that used to lynch Jews for helping Blacks. Of course that was before it hit the Jerry Springer crowd that they might get reserved first class tickets to heaven if they can get all the Jews into Israel and the same time. Of course, if the Rapture doesn't happen, at least there won't be any Jews left in America.

As far as any right of refugees to return to their homes in Israel....That was back in 1948. And while western people would have moved on in their old age, most Arabs don't. There are Palestinians living for generations now in Lebanese refugee camps which have become permanent settlements.

Besides, how and where could they return? To the new Palestinian State? That might be okay. But that's not what Abbas wants. He wants the long-term refugees to live with the Jews in Israel. At the same time he doesn't want Jews living in his new country. And if you examine these demands, they're designed to eventually do to Israel what the PLO did to Lebanon, create a cantonized collection of anarchic popuation centers...something like the UN partition plan the Arabs rejected in 1947.

The tragedy of the Palestinian refugees is common among peasant people hooked on religion and who trust in the promises of their leaders...leaders who told them they must not leave the camps if they ever want to see their homes again... deliverance is just around the corner. What they were really saying is we don't want you in our countries...you may be Arabs but not our Arabs.

There are 22 Arab countries in one of the world's most sparsely populated regions, except for Israel, Lebanon and the Gaza Strip, which is one of the most densely populated areas on the Mediterranean. Yet by an Arab League edict, their brother Palestinians are denied citizenship in other Arab nations.
Jewish Refugees from Arab Nations
Compare this to to more than 500,000 Jews expelled from Arab lands since 1948 and who were welcomed into Israel with open arms. In fact, Israel has let no geographic barrier stop it from attempting to rescue fellow travelers, such as the Jews of Ethiopia.

The idea that a small, yet heavily populated county such as Israel should make territorial concessions is absurd given the amount of Arab land and money available to help the Palestinians…help that has never been seriously offered by their brothers to people supposedly living in temporary accommodation.

On the other hand, the subject of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is seldom mentioned. Will Arab countries welcome back those they booted out of their homes? Yet, why would these people and their children want to return to Iraq, for example?

Money to Set Up a Palestinian State
Money to set-up a Palestinian state will also be on the agenda. But where have all the billions allegedly funneled into the camps through the generations gone? Who has the keys and passbook to the late Yassar Arafat's bank accounts? It's a good bet the Saudis and Gulf Emirates haven't mortgaged the royal silverware to assist the Palestinians.

The $60 billion financial crisis in Dubai earlier this year, the less than full mammoth hotels, golf courses and indoor ski slopes, are glaring examples of a needless waste of cash that could have gone to aid and resettle Palestinian refugees.

But, this is a conflict that defies western logic, which is probably why it’s so difficult for westerners to understand. Where else in the world are a people, the Palestinians, dependent on another people, the Israelis, for their very existence, yet deny the existence of their would-be benefactors to the point of approving an endless war against them forcing their benefactors to become jailers?

Where else would such a people endure endless lip service from their brothers, some of whom have the world’s highest per capita income, yet receive little else from these oil rich countries
Now couple this with the fact Gaza has the highest birth rate in the region, and you can see why it might resemble a concentration camp, as the current Pope labelled it.

Having millions of their poverty stricken devoutly religious brothers penned up and breeding in greater numbers serves the Arab nations well. They can confront Israel without firing a shot or risking another major conflict.

Such a State might be Unworkable
Yet, a Palestinian state would, in the long-term be unworkable the way it is now planned, one part on the West Bank of the Jordan River and the other on the Gaza Strip. Just as was the case with East and West Pakistan, the two parts would probably separate, as they actually are now.

Then there’s also the very real prospect of further terror attacks against Israel. Until all the Palestinians accept Israel as a reality, the war will continue.

I have long felt if a comprehensive settlement was ever reached between the two sides, the occupied land should revert back to its former owners, Jordan and Egypt, established Arab nations who could care and control for the populations. However, it’s highly unlikely Egypt would entertain taking back Gaza.

Oh, a bit of history…Gaza is only area that historically can rightfully claim to be Palestinian, being the location of the ancient Philistine nation. For those who don’t know Palestine means Land of the Philistines, an Indo-European people, much like the Phoenicians and an equally dead civilization, but also equally non-Semitic.

When Rome destroyed Jerusalem it re-named Judea and Samara Palestine to erase any ties the Jews might have to their land. Since no other independent nation was ever established there the timeless Arabs just kept that name going…it’s almost like Americans continuing to call our native people Indians. It remains to be seen if any Palestinian state will keep this Roman name or come up with something more indigenous to the region.



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Dan Ehrlich is a writer for BrooWaha. For more information, visit the writer's website.
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23 comments on Peace Talk Overture: Hamas Kills Four Israeli Civilians

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By ranfuchs on August 31, 2010 at 08:33 pm

Intentional killing of 4 people including a pregnant woman is one thing. The Palestinian for the 'heroes' is much scarier.

What is the mentality of people who celebrate murder of a pregnant woman? What can negotiation with such people achieve?

The world has not condemned. But just let Israel assassin one of the murderers (after all, they will not be brought to justice in Palatine, or any other Arab country) and watch the world move to overdrive.

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By Dan Ehrlich on August 31, 2010 at 11:22 pm

if that isn 't enough, here's another arab past time from saudi arabia:

A Saudi employer and his wife, who are accused of torturing a Sri Lankan housemaid by hammering nails into her body, have been arrested in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, officials at the Sri Lankan External Affairs Ministry said Monday.

Saudi Arabian authorities could not be reached immediately for verification. No further details were available.

The two suspects have not been named.

Doctors at a Sri Lankan hospital operated for three hours Friday to remove 18 nails and metal particles allegedly hammered into the arms, legs and forehead of a maid by her Saudi employer.

Why do they do this? Because their faith encourages them to this

from the Koran...Hurricane you'll lobe this: Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

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KORAN promises of houris in heaven:

Single-minded slaves of Allah... will be honored in the Gardens of delight, on couches facing one another; A cup from a gushing spring is brought round for them, white, delicious to the drinkers, wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad thereby. And with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes, pure as they were hidden eggs. - Surah 37:40-49

Lo, for those who ward off evil is a happy journey's end, Gardens of Eden, whereof the gates are opened for the, wherein, reclining, they call for plenteous fruit and cool drink therein. And with them are those of modest gaze, companions. This it is that ye are promised for the Day of Reckoning. - 38:50-54

Lo! Those who kept their duty will be in a place secure, amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another.... And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes. They call therein for every fruit in safety. They taste not death therein, save the first death. And He hath saved them from the doom of hell, a bounty from thy Lord. That is the supreme triumph. - 44:51-57

Lo! Those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight... reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes... and we provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire.... - 52:17-22

...Reclining upon couches lined with silk brocade, the fruit of both the gardens near to hand.... Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them.... - 55:54-56

Those are they who will be brought nigh, in gardens of delight... reclining therein face to face. There wait on them immortal youths... and fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, like unto hidden pearls, reward for what they used to do.... Lo! We have created them a creation, and made them virgins, lovers, friends. - 56:11-37

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By TonyBerkman on September 04, 2010 at 11:24 am

Though I don't see the Israeli's quoting scripture to justifying killing of innocent people.

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By Libdrone on September 04, 2010 at 01:12 pm

@Tazz,


Do you think it would have been fairer if the international community post WWII had given the Jewish people a homeland in Germany?

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By Libdrone on September 04, 2010 at 05:55 pm

In looking at the recent history of Jewish peoples, it is easy to see why Israel grants citizenship to every Jew, regardless of where they are born. A people who have been through the Holocaust, a program literally, specifically designed to wipe them from the face of the earth can hardly be faulted for adopting a policy of sanctuary.

That said, it is of course quite unreasonable to declare yourself the owner of land that has been in someone else's family for generations. If sounds as though Dean and Tazz both agree that creating Israel in Palastine was a mistake and one that must be addressed. And as is so often the case these days, it appears to me that it is the extremists on both side who most stalemate any reasonable solution to the dilemma.

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By Libdrone on September 05, 2010 at 01:09 pm

Dean,

I don't disagree with you. I remember reading about a group of Israeli women who go to the checkpoints every day and use what influence they can to try to ease the passage of Palestinians through these roadblocks that are the dominant feature of life in that region. I think of them as being the moderates in this situation. The Israelis who in religious zeal set about to move onto land that has been in someone elses family are extremists.

I do not question or dispute Israel's right to exist and I believe in my comments I have argued that their policies are not unreasonable in light of their own recent history. Imho, any hope of solving their dilemma must come from conversations that are much more nuanced than casting it as a debate between Israel's right to exist and the Palestinan people's right to exist as well.

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By Libdrone on September 05, 2010 at 01:16 pm

Dean,

This post I published in February 2009 makes my views a bit clearer:

http://libdrone.info/2009/02/victory-for-us-is-to-see-you-suffer/

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By Libdrone on September 05, 2010 at 01:24 pm

Dean,


My remarks were particularly in agreement with your statement upthread

"It is a sick and sad situation with hypocrisy on both sides trying to play, or shall I say prey on American sympathy. Tricky, tricky, tricky."

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By Libdrone on September 05, 2010 at 01:47 pm

Phillip Winsolow (author of Victory for us...) is so eloquent and even handed in presenting both sides of the conflict, on the ground at the checkpoints that I believe his book can serve to bring people of good will who support Israel to more fully understanding this horrible conflict and (hopefully) lead them to re-examine and refine their activism in ways that may prove more effective.

Imho, the most difficult part in resolving conflict lies in getting those who hold entrenched views to adopt a broader perspective which allows them to see and hear where the other side is coming from. You used the word hypocrisy where I used the word extremism. But it seems to me we are to an extent talking about the same thing.

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By Libdrone on September 05, 2010 at 06:13 pm

mmmm. Trying to imagine how establishing a large Palestinian settlement in the US would go over with those who are already up in arms over the illegal immigation crisis.

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By Libdrone on September 05, 2010 at 06:49 pm

Being from New Orleans (which rightly or wrongly is often compared to Paris) I speak a little French and have some affection for France and the French people. (But do give you props for managing to piss off so many in one thread.)

I recall in their book Hollowing Out The Middle (http://libdrone.info/2010/04/book-review-hollowing-out-the-middle-by-patrick-j-carr-and-maria-j-kefalas/) Maria Kefalas and Pat Carr talk about the brain drain suffered by states like Iowa which fail to retain their best and brightest off-spring. Handled properly I can envision a plan for re-settling Palestinians in the US that could be win, win, win.

The problem with all of this planning though is that is that the Palestinian people are not ours to be relocated at our will and convenience. Selling the plan to the people of Palestine and the people of states like Iowa.....who knows?

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By Libdrone on September 05, 2010 at 07:31 pm

No, I am not a Cajun, nor a Creole. My ancestry is German and Brittish, although my father's family lived in New Orleans for a number of generations.

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By Libdrone on September 05, 2010 at 07:53 pm

lol

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By Efroach on September 07, 2010 at 03:48 am

This was one of the better and most accurate writings I've seen so far.

Tazz and Dean, the land of Israel was constantly populated by Jews through out the years of exile. Hebron, was always inhabitat by jews. Most so called "Palestinians" immigrated to the land of Israel during the first half of the 20s centuries for 2 reasons: 1. Job opportunities, 2. To "arabise" the country as a reaction to the growing immigrations of jews who actualy started building cities, infrastructure, agriculture and "flowering the desert".

Jordan is Palestine. The arabs residing in Israel had no national identity until the State of Israel was form, they were only groups of peasants from different surrounding countries.

You can't deny the jewish people of it's historical homeland. Israel stands not because of the holocaust and not out of any nations pity or guilt. Jerusalem is the eternal capital of Israel and so it shall remain.

And to claim that the Brits supported the concept of "Israel" is a joke. The brits were so scared of the arabs and so greedy for their oil they forced immigration quotas on Jews only. Worse then that, they closed the gates of the country to jews trying to escape from the Nazis. For that I will never forgive them.

And about the Old Testament compared to the Quran...Judaism has no concept of missionary of Jihad. Live and let live. We don't try to impose our beliefs on other people and we recognise their right to live in peace.

I can't help but sensing a slight scent of anti-semitism in this blog.

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By Efroach on September 07, 2010 at 05:32 am

Taz,

Yes, I know a little history and I aware that arabs are my "cousins". Anti-semitism in its historical meaning refers to Jew-hatred. Since you are so sensitive the broader meaning of the term Semite, I will simply refer to you or HurricaneDean as Jew-haters in disguise from now on.

You can interprentate history any way you please, it still doesn't no give the so-called "palestinians" any right over eretz-Israel, definitely not over the jewish people. Jews..Judea? Arabs...Arabia?

You chose to ignore most of my arguments and simply disposed them as "wrong on all accounts" rather than responding intelligently.

And what you and Dean express is far beyond legitimate critism of Israel. It is denial of its right to exist and exist in Zion, and by that you choose to deny the Jewish people of their independece.

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By Efroach on September 07, 2010 at 05:59 am

And you still haven't responded to my arguments. I guess you simply can't beat them.

Saying that I am wrong on all counts without relevant explainations shows who is the one really lacking an open-non-biased mind in this debate.

Enjoy the darkness..

And have a happy new year :)

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By Efroach on September 07, 2010 at 07:34 am

Tazz, the Palestine refered to by king Horodotus and its inhabitants at the time has absolutely NOTHING to to with the so called Palestinians of today. No history or genetic ties. The "Palestinians" are a group of arabs from different surrounding countries that immigrated to the land of Israel in the last few centuries and mainly in the 20th century.

Jordan is indeed Palestine, large parts of its territory were under the British Mandate on Palestine. Jordan's population is appx. 70% (!!!!) "Palestinian".

Lol, No scientific historical proof??! you must be kidding. You have not supplied with any "scientifical" proof of your arguments so far, yet you choose to ignore dozens of books with testimonials and dozens of archiological sites scattered all over Israel that can support it.

So it happens that I work for the University of Tel Aviv and would be happy to direct you to some reading material.

You are simply degrading this argument to the level of a joke and I don't know if it is out of true ignorance or pure hatred guiding you into distorting history and claiming it is "facts".

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By Efroach on September 07, 2010 at 12:34 pm

You would have had no clue of all there historical nationalities if they had not been mentioned in the bible to begin with.

I was refering to King Hordus who ruled in Israel, I studied history in Hebrew, therefor there is possibility of mix up in the names (yes, in Hebrew we say many historical names differently).

Do you actualy need proof of my employmency? pathetic.

Give me example for "scientific" archiological site if you don't mind and also the non religious history books going back 3000 years and written at the time that can faithfuly portray life in the Middle East and contradict the notion that Israel i the Jewish Peoples historical homeland.

Go ahead, I am waiting and ready for some links..

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By Efroach on September 07, 2010 at 12:39 pm

BTW, read a little about Titus Flavius Josephus, he had some interesting stories about the Roman period

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By Libdrone on September 07, 2010 at 11:22 pm

Just to add another

Bravo!

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By Efroach on September 08, 2010 at 01:12 am

Still waiting for your other scientific sources.

Judaism is definitely not the cancer of the world. It is a live and let live religion which gave the world the 10 commandments. Maybe you'd still be sacrifying your kid to some statue if Christianity hadn't adopted the Jewish foundations of humane laws.

I am not a religious person. I do not observe Shabbat or eat kosher by the halacha. But I know that Judaism has so much deep and meaningful philosophy. And teaches it's students to ask questions constantly and reach higher truth.

Too bad your ignorance and close mindness will keep you from learning all that.

Happy holiday

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By Efroach on September 09, 2010 at 01:59 pm

LOL, so you dismiss the argument by claiming thar I lack reason.

Very mature and very intelligent. Clearly, I was the one wasting my time...

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By PATRICK PETION on September 28, 2010 at 12:40 am

the truth of that matter is : it clear those comment show a lack of knowledge about the story of the bible and the people whom occupied the land, if you have any knowledge you will know that the so call Palestinian and the Jews who are from the land of Palestine are the same people. one group of people whom are divided by religion and European interest. however after the creation of the Jewish state many European whom declare to be Jews when they are not decide to move to the promised land, but they are not from Abraham

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