I've read a few of Doreen Virtues books. Could you please provide me with the titles that reference "109 angels", "angels are our errand boys" and "God is (NOT) your errand boy". You make a lot of accussations but I don't see any references to hard data to back them up.

The term "God is not your errand boy" is my own. The books by Virtue are: Angels 101: An Introduction to Connecting, Working, and Healing with the Angels Healing With The Angels Manifesting with the Angels (this is where I get the term of God is not your errand boy) Archangels and Ascended Masters (where the 109 figure comes from) Daily Guidance from Your Angels: 365 Angelic Messages to Soothe, Heal, and Open Your Heart (Ditto as above line) Goddesses & Angels (Ditto as above line)

109?! What are Earth are you talking about? In her book Archangels and Ascended Masters she talks about BOTH. The bulk of the book covers the Ascended Masters. I am just curious what your vendeta agaist Doreen Virtue and Marinanne Williamson is? I have came across this same writting from you a total of 3 times! WTF?! But then you like other New Agers with similiar beliefs. It makes no sense. It also makes me sick how negative and judgemental your writting is. You talk about the women's personal issues such as how many marriages they have been in, admitted drug use, fatherless children out of wedlock, and yadda, yadda, yadda... I was just curious if your shit smells like roses too?? Instead of bashing these women that are encouraging love and acceptance why don't you go back and read Doreen's books and get your facts straight? Oh yeah, and get a life why you're at it and quit posting this shit all over the internet. Mmm-k, yeah, thanks, mm-hmm, buh-bye!

Dear Anonymous ... no I am not on a vendetta and I am NOT a New Ager. I am a Catholic trained as an attorney who has known quite a few people who were tampered with because they consulting many of the writers I have written about. There is no revenge mission here. Quite the contrary I am simply pointing out ruptures in the foundation of a theology. When someone is considering an investment in a stock the wise investor looks at the money manager, the track record of performance, the track record of the fund, and other variables. There is some truth in the concept that the best indicator of future behavior is past actions. My intention for writing these articles is in the spirit of consumer protection. Virute charges $2500 to become a medium. If I were to learn any special skill from anyone I would want a background check. Employers do that before hiring employees. In the 1970's alot of people were conned and their minds ddistorted by many a spiritual guru. My heart goes out to them and their wallets. As a lawyer I cannot help but voice concerns that vulnerable people are being taken advantage of rather than getting the help they need. You are entitled to your opinion but your posting resorts to personal attacks on me rather than the case I have outlined in my article. As for your comments to get a life and to stop posting on the Internet if you don't like it then don't read it. Free speech is free speech.

The reason I feel so strong about my article warning people against certain writers is the following book: Ransomed from Darkness: The New Age, Christian Faith and the Battle for Souls by Moira Noonan

She doesn't charge $2,500 for her medium training and I know this because my friend took the course. You are $1,000 off sweetheart. Where are you getting your facts???

My "attacks" were just simply stating that you're writting was going beyond the facts. You are actually the one that attacks people on a personal level. Why is it necessary to let the world know how many times Doreen has been married or how many failed relationships Marianne Williamson has had?? What does that really have to do with what they are teaching? If anything, we grow and gain wisdom with the trials and tribualtions we endure in our lives. You act as though these women have nothing worthwile to say due to mistakes they have made in their PAST. Oh yeah, and a little fyi, Doreen HASN'T been married 4 times and even if she had, who are we to judge her?? What is one of the number one things any religion of God encompasses?? God is the only one who can judge others, love and acceptance for everyone, right??

I too have known people who have trained personally with Doreen Virtue. Here are the facts: Mediumship Mentorship Program Date: August 31-Septempber 02, 2007 Location: Kailua-Kona, Hawaii Sold Out For orders received after August 31, 2007: please pick up your tickets at Will Call on the day of event. By popular request, we are offering an intensive weekend apprenticeship training in stage, workshop, and counseling mediumship, limited to 20 people. This course is designed to increase your self-confidence and psychic abilities. It's appropriate for beginning, intermediate, or advanced psychics. You will receive a certificate at the end of the class after conducting all the activities. Please note: To attend, you must be certified as an Angel Therapy Practitioner® or Angel Intuitive™. Doreen has received the message that there is a need for lightworkers to conduct psychic readings for audiences, and she isn't able to accept all of the speaking and interview requests that she receives. So, she has decided to train other lightworkers to fulfill this mission. Whether you feel called to give mediumship readings in private practice, or in front of an audience, this class will take your spiritual gifts to the next levels. The small class size allows each student to work at their own pace toward their own goals. Doreen will work with you and the other students on the mediumship areas you aspire toward. She will emphasize clairvoyance, discernment of spirit, and developing accuracy and confidence in your readings. This is a hands-on workshop, in which Doreen Virtue will teach you all aspects of mediumship, including stage and audience readings for workshops, television, and radio. You will learn how to conduct stage mediumship with your eyes open in front of an audience; how to instantly discern deceased loved ones next to your client; how to know their familial relationship to your client; how to overcome performance anxiety; how to give psychic readings on the telephone or a radio show; receiving the name of the deceased person and other details to verify and validate your reading to your client and audience; and ways to be a clear channel between your client and the spirit world. You'll have lots of time to practice with classmates, in twosomes and as a practice workshop audience. Doreen will work with each participant to discern and work on any blocks to clairvoyance and mediumship abilities. She will coach you in the little-known skills that she can't teach in her larger classes. This is a class for anyone who feels guided to come. Beginners through advanced psychic students are welcome. Because the class size is so small and because Doreen is teaching a very intense format with information and experiences that she can't teach to larger audiences, the tuition fee is higher than normal weekend workshops, to cover company expenses. Sorry, no scholarships or volunteer exchanges are available for this program. Tuition: $1777, includes lunch on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. This must be paid in full at time of registration to reserve your place in class. Cancellation Policy -- Please Read: A 15% cancellation fee applies. No refunds thirty (30) days before the start of the event, as this is such a small course that we need everyone registered to be present. Prerequisite: All participants must be certified Angel Therapy Practitioners® (ATP) or Angel Intuitives™. No exceptions. Course Hours: Friday, (Registration at 9:30 a.m.) 10 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Saturday, 10 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Sunday, 10 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. We have reserved a limited number of hotel rooms at The Sheraton Keauhou Bay Resort at a special group rate of $190. A reservation code will be given to you once you register for the course. For more information on the hotel, please visit their website at http://www.sheratonkeauhou.com. Registration Information: Tuition must be paid-in-full at time of registration. Registration is on a first-come, first-serve basis, and is strictly limited to 20 individuals. Register for this course by calling 360.568.0814, or via email to info@angeltherapy.com. Travel information: Fly into the Kona International Airport at Keahole. Cars are available for rent at the airport, or you may take the hotel shuttle for a small fee.

Please note that the author probably calculated the $2500 based on extra costs incurred such as flight, meals, travel insurance, accomodation, and the fact that all registrants must have the pre-requisite courses in ATP. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Character assessment is the foundation of the integrity of a teacher. If Marianne is so fired up about Jesus then she should have converted to Christianity in an official way. The Jews for Jesus would have welcomed it! Now that would be a true statement and testament of faith.

I would like to respond to comments posted by Savattra regarding Doreen Virtue. I have first hand experience with what Doreen teaches since I have completed two of her courses. I have a hard time understanding the relevance of how many times she has been married, what her husband does for a living, and whether you can or can not verify her degree. What I do believe is relevant is that she teaches to live from love and not judgement and fear. She also teaches us how to contact our Angels for assistance and support when we need it and I am asking you.."what is the problem with that"? When we live in fear we are very vulnerable and people take advantage of us. She teaches that if a person has any fear to ask the Angels for assistance. You should give it a try sometime, if you allow yourself to believe your Angels are truly there you will feel a peacefulness come over you. We are entitled to our opinions and free speech, but I am curious to know how does it feel to pass judgement and slander someone just because their beliefs may differ from yours? If she were running a camp and brainwashing people for her personal benefit I could understand your negative comments a bit more. But she encourages anyone she teaches to go out and spread the word of the Angels and Love. Please tell me the problem with that? Is your religious belief the only correct one? Does yours teach to love and not judge? Or does it teach to live from fear and guilt? I recommend you spend the money, have an open mind and take one of her courses to see that she is providing wonderful information to anyone in attendance. I have a problem seeing where the problem lies with someone teaching you to pray for healing, request Angelic assistance when needed, and to live through the eyes of love. Many people I encountered from different religious backgrounds seemed to be hypocritical and judgemental and I believe God does not want us to live like that. I have read most of her books, have her cards, staff her workshops when I can and share with others what I have learned from her. I believe if people lived from love and not judgement the world would be a much better place to be.

Dear Dangel, I too have known many who studied with Doreen for many years and were left so spiritually confused and tampered with by spirits that they needed deliverance even though they were atheists to start with. There are angels and there are demons ... and by their fruits you shall know them. I am concerned at the theology that Doreen Virtue teaches about how there are more than 7 archangels ... because if there was a conscpiracy why would the Church hide beings such as Jehosaphat and Chamuel? After all the Roman Catholics would have much to gain by promoting more angels to sell as artwork for the faithful. My overall concern is that while spirituality is a wonderful thing, and I am friends with many pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, etc ... certain writers from any denomination infusing spirit guides into disciples .... is a serious affect of their soul. Just like one would take great care in selecting a surgeon so too a spiritual doctor. Doreen possess innate gifts of the Holy Spirit and these were granted free to her by God. I suspect Doreen and I acknowledge the same God. Where I diverge is that angels have told people to worship God and not them and fall into distracting idol worshop. Also ... I question her ceredentials, because how can anyone be sure that Doreen is checking these angels out to make sure they are angels and not demons in disguise. This is a valid question and if you can answer it - wonderful! I just know that the people tampered with went a bit nutty and began seeing not just angels but demons in their midst that it threw them over the deep end after Doreen's training. By the way ... I am descended from South American shamans who kept their work very secret unless called upon by local villagers. I am the farthest thing from a religious bible thumper. Look up the lineage of New Zealand Maori Tohungas on the Internet. That is what I come from come and embrace my heritage but the one thing I was taught was that these spiritual gifts are born not made and it is a requirement as healers to pray up to 5 hours a day and walk with GOD.... not tamper people's souls. I also studied comparative religion so I am not brainwashed by the Vatican if you also suspect that. My intention is to protect people from spiritual attack which is what the New Age often opens them up for.

Savattra, I agree with a number of points you make. But I still think you are confused about Doreen's training. If spending close to a week meditating, feeling love and support from God and the Angelic realm, learning to trust our intuition and live in the light is not a positive move please tell me why. Doreen teaches how to call in the Angels especially Archangel Michael to protect us from darkness. I must say a person in good mental and emotional health would not go off the deep end after studying what Doreen teaches. People who are not stable mentally or emotionally can be sent off the deep end by any thing that may happen during their day. Could they not hear her message of love and protection from the Angels, and that you simply call them in and they will protect you. I really don't believe we are being tricked into working with demons, what would the advantage be? You say New Age opens the door for spiritual attack, someone could generalize Shamanic Practices as voodoo too. I believe our minds are so powerful that as long as we focus on the goodness in our life then goodness will surely come. And on the flip side, if we focus on darkness and deceit that is what we will get. Angel Blessings, Karen

Karen, If it is truly the angelic realm you are working with and not demons in disguise then the love is true and pure. What concerns me is Doreen's comments about reincarnated sorceresses. There is a big difference between shaman, tohunga versus sorcery. The former works and walks with God. The later is all about my will be done.

I AGREE WITH DANGEL 100%!!! AMEN SISTER!

Amen to people not being spiritually attacked ..... Just curious ... IS YOUR AMEN TO GOD OR TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD???? What Does 'Amen' Mean? Oddly, to get a scriptural answer to what 'Amen' means, we go to a place where it is used not as the last word but the first word. Jesus would often start a solemn statement by saying "Verily" or "Truly". In John's gospel (eg Jhn 3:3) Jesus is recorded as using the word twice in succession, "Verily, verily, I say to you...". This is actually the word "Amen". When we compare an instance of this in Mark, with the same statement in Luke, we find Mark has left the word untranslated (just as αμην "Amen"), but Luke has translated it using the word αληθος "Truly". (Mark 9:1, Lke 9:27). This shows us that the underlying meaning of the word "Amen" is truth and verity. It is a solemn affirmation. When we say, "Amen" we are saying, "Yes before God I agree with that, I believe that to be true, I want that to be so". In some other interesting and helpful passages... Instead of saying, "Amen, Amen" Jeremiah paraphrased the second Amen in his statement, "Amen, the Lord do so" (Jer 28:6). One of God's names or titles is "The God of Truth". If we left the last word untranslated, the title would read, "The God of Amen" (Isa 65:16). Paul uses the word as an affirmation when he says of Christ, "For as many as may be the promises of God, in him they are 'yes' and in him 'amen'" (2Co 1:20). One of the names of Jesus is "The Amen, the Faithful and True Witness" (Rev 3:14). These passages show us that the word "Amen" is a solemn affirmation of truth, a special word that we can use whenever we have said (or heard) something that is true before God. Amen.

Amen to affirm the truth. I don't even know why you responded to that and rambled on for several paragraphs. I was simply saying like,"Right on, or I second that." You over analyze things WAAAAAY too much. I liked what Dangle had to say so,"Amen sister" is just a figure of speech and shouldn't be picked apart by some negative woman who woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Damn lady, did you burn your coffee this morning? Step in dog poop? Get cut off by someone while you were driving? I mean, what I said really wasn't a big deal and didn't need some long, drawn out, overanalyzed arguement. You seem to want to argue about every little thing. Well, I guess that's just the "lawyer" side of you coming out. Put the claws away lady, really, it wasn't meant harmfully or to affend Jesus or yourself.

Sorry, I read that repsonse again amd that was such bullsh$t! I mean that was so irrelevant and lame. I can't believe one little sentence would provoke such a response. I mean what are you even talking about?! Jerimiah this and Paul that, all because of a little "Amen Sister"????? That is soooooooo ridiculous and you really humor me. Thanks for the entertainment Seventra or whatever the hell your name is.

I just hope for yur sake you don't have a dark night of the soul just like Lynn Grabhorn did with all this woo-woo dabbling.

Read the book and I'm fine thanks.

I don't understand why you say that we should "fear" angels. Just the other night, I called upon Archangel Micheal to protect me from what I believed to be a bad spirit. I don't think that Doreen asks the angels to be our "errand boys" but rather to be called upon when we are faced with fear, depression, dispair, etc. I am just curious to what books you have read of Doreen's that have turned you off to her teachings? I believe what Dangels says to be true from my expierece with Doreen's writings and have never encountered anything leading me to believe that some things are too trivial to call upon our angels for.

Angels are not to be feared. God is who you pray to as testified in the bible. Whenever angels appeared in the bible they told people not to be afraid fo them because their appearance was so awestruck. Angels are to be seen as protective guides. What I am talking about are demons masquerading as angles.

Can you please give me a little clarification on "demons masquerading as angels?" I am really curious about which books you have read too. Like I said, I have read several of her books and haven't encountered anything that supports that argument. I know that she has written several so perhaps you have came across something I have not?? I really do love what I have read by Doreen thus far and must say that her teachings have only taught me to be a more loving, gracious, and positive individual. I reccomend reading "The Lightworker's Way" if you haven't already. It provides an account of her inspirational personal story. I assure you that there are no evil teachings within the pages of this book.

My first question is have you ever met Doreen in person? It's easy to take potshots at someone just by reading one book. I've had the great pleasure of meeting her twice. As someone who once considered myself a "Christian"(but no longer do so- more on that), Doreen peels back the true nature of God as a loving Father to ALL- not just your specialized group of Bible fearing freaks. She teaches love and tolerance, not hate and fear. It's almost funny when "good Christians" hide behind their bibles, allowing them excuses for the way they act. Their new slogan should be WWJK (who would Jesus Kill?- the answer is no one, so get the hell out of Iraq!) But many Ligthworkers, and I consider myself one, can see you for what you really are....an "author" looking to make a few pennies at the expense of someone doing positive work in the world. But be warned, fearful one, God will not "choose" you for whom you slander, but instead on the good works and acts of your life. What until the Indigo children get a hold of you! BTW, how many times have you been married?

For a lightworker how good is your psychic prowess? If your third eye is open you would have known that I have met her in person, I am raised a Catholic but not a bible thumper, acknowledge in several of my articles that Christians are just as guilty of hypocrisy, and that I prefer wolves to wolves in sheep's clothing. I am myself an Indigo child with deep roots in the West Indies on my mother's side. I grew up with Orishi work performed all around me. I was iniatied into what the west calls "a shamanic" tribe that I was born into at the age of two. I am te farthest thing from a crazy Christian bible thumper, fire andd brimestone, narrow minded hick from the Ozarks that one can be. These spiritual activities are sacred and any true lightworker knows that rule number one is to not tamper with people's minds and souls when performing spiritual activity. The difference between my mindset and the New Age is that I am very aware of light and dark, and light masquerading as dark, and teachers who milk their students for all they are worth because it is about money pure and simple. The tragedy is that the minds of these sincere souls are damaged to their detriment after investing all sorts of money into a supposed helper. And no, I and am not an author looking to make money off another's human errors. I have a legitimate job as a licensed attorney in the state of Illionois, New York, and California. This is not an intent to slander, rather, I have known many people who were warped by New Age teachings that they needed REAL AUTHENTIC medicine men and women also trained in medical science and licensed to pull them out. God loves everyone. He reaps where he doesn't sow. As for your question ... I have never been married ... I am part of the 52% of American singles who have never said I do. You can conclude alot about me couldn't you? And you are free to do so. You and the fan club as missing the point. People in need are vulnerable. They need spiritual help that fixes them and sends them on their merry way. Not to be milked off their hard earned money.

I'm going to a Virtue event for the first time tonight and will be able to make a more informed decision about her afterwards. I'd like to think most of us are not just sheep being led to the slaughter, although we've seen it happen again and again. I'd like to think that we're savvier than ever about making an informed decision about answers we seek and, in turn, the plethora of thing we learn on those quests. I will have my eyes, ears and heart open tonight and then go from there. My interest is mainly piqued because I've had a few hard to believe experiences in my life that had to do with the presence of angels, as have a few of my close friends and even my mother. We're all sane, normal people. (Okay, I am most of the time.) This is what attracts me to the whole idea of angels and learning more, but I come with a sense of skepticism. I'm open to things, but I'm not like a moth to the flame. On another note, I do believe that those with whom one is associated (as noted in some of the prior posts about Virtue's husband) IS absolutely important. I.E., if indeed, Dr. Virtue's husband is a con man of a higher degree, this IS pertinent, no? I'm not saying HE IS. I don't know anything about him. My point is that if he IS, this would seem to say that she feels deception is acceptable and even okay, which, of course to an honorable person with integrity, it's not. For the most part, the old adage "Birds of a feather" usually holds true. As far as how many times she has or hasn't been married seems more irrelevant to me. On the other hand, Barbara whatever her name is who was married to (and subsequently divorced from) "You Can Heal What You Feel" author John Gray, preaches to people about how to have a great and healthy marriage while she has experienced a few divorces and, last I knew, she remained unmarried. I have a TV producer friend who's worked with her personally and says she's just a goofball. I have spoken. For all it's worth.

No religion is the one "right religion." No religion is wrong. For God is infinite and therefore cannot be contained or fully portrayed in a finite system of beliefs that is religion.

All faiths are different routes to essentially the same destination.

Savattra, I’m just wondering what was the purpose of your article further on than doubting Doreen Virtue’s competence? I don’t have a deep knowledge of Doreen Virtue’s work – only read a few things from her. I respect her intention to help people to find something they can believe in - which can assist them in their everyday life. I noticed you continuously referring and quoting from the Holy Bible and comparing Doreen’s Angel work with the Bible, etc. You even accuse her with fraud. From the point you mix her private life – the number of her marriages – not even forgetting to mention her “Plastic Shaman” husband in estimating her work, carrier, etc - you have lost your authenticity. Then I haven’t mentioned her degree you kindly acknowledged is from a so called “Degree Mill”, etc. There are more and more new not accredited universities because of the “outmoded” accreditation systems. And I’m sure there are few interest-groups in all societies who’s main interest is to keep the “effete thinking” points of view alive. However and altogether I rather pay attention to some – maybe very interesting – unaccredited “new blow of the wind” than the many thousands of unknown graduates who gained their degree in legally accredited universities – which really produce their graduates like the “mills” – without the required knowledge. Sorrowfully many people live with the idol that high level intelligence is a basic requirement to obtain university degrees. Well, this is not true – I have met people who hadn’t even had high school degree but were ever so intelligent and wise. Unfortunately I met loads of people with university degrees who were darker than the midnight desert. You who deny the fact of being a “Bible Thumper” – although quotes by rote - let me refresh your very intellectual “mindset”: First of all – you are supposed to be living in this same world at this moment – you ought to know if you are so “well-trained” that the Holy Bible has been deliberately misinterpreted, re-wrote, many books, chapters have been deleted from it, etc a few times in the history. Why? To be able to manipulate the masses. However in the third millennia it’s about time to be aware of that fact that religion as such was nothing else than power – a tool to be able to keep the masses in control. Let me remind you – because you probably know or at least ought to know that Jesus was teaching and preaching that there is no need for priests neither any kind of mediators between me and God to keep in touch with God. Everybody can and should be in touch with God individually. He never intended to found a church neither organised religion. Second. If you are so well informed you also ought to know that almost all the very big names in the Bible – and not just in the Judeo-Christian religious world - had visions, dreams – God talked to them personally – where and how? As mentioned they had dreams and visions. I don’t know whether in your so high level history knowledge of religion have you managed to reach that point that in deep meditation levels you can have visions which become appearances. So why couldn’t a person like Doreen Virtue have similar visions? Or is it written in the Bible – that since the Bible was written and finished such things can not happen? And/or it was a privilege for mankind only at that time……? Before you “stigmatize” me as “faithless unbeliever” – although it’s my own business – I declare that I believe in God. I’m pleased to tell you that I have “grey matter” - BUT I insist to use it. I do not need many thousand years old myths to tell me what I can and should believe in. I’m adult enough to set my own morals as well. I respect the Holy Bible as one of the most valuable ancient, wise writings of mankind. I do admit that I prefer the scientific approach and I’m also very pleased to acknowledge that the gap between religion and science is decreasing. It is scientifically proven that many things can be created by the imagination - guides, angels, spiritual beings, etc – and their beneficent impacts are also acknowledged. José Silva who was an extremely religious person advised a similar method, such as creating imaginary guides, helpers even angels to help/assist in solving problems – and the method really works. These things work on similar principles as the “talismans” work. Such as, if you really believe in it – with your belief you empower your talisman, guide, angel, etc – that together you can achieve almost anything – of course this is only true for positive, moral things. Or the other similar phenomenon is the placebo effect. Everything takes place in the mind starting with our thoughts. So, till Doreen Virtue is trying to help people to get to know their inner-self and how to achieve inner-peace, etc – in this very rough world – it would be advantageous to leave her alone and let her carry on with her work, i.e. even if she discovers further 2-3 hundred angels. I think it’s much more dangerous to try to shepherd the people back to uncivilized era’s – especially after history has proven what religious leaders dared to do in the name of God. And finally thank you for your Curriculum Vitae – although I’m sure nobody was really interested – you forgot to make declaration about your sex life –please don’t make any complements. I just wanted to acknowledge you mixed up the “season with the fashion”. Maybe it’s about time to get back to your clients you refer to in your CV….and leave Doreen Virtue alone.

darlin ur facts are all wrong! for one clarkson university's degree isn't unaccredited...check the following web link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarkson_University sweetheart before you start accusing other people of being conmen/women , atleast do some research well! and u seem to be really lacking in imagination , you have copy pasted the same stuff on atleast four other websites with more accusation againt sonia choquette. though you have'nt mentioned here here let me add for your limited knowlege, women can study kabballah and there is no minimum age limit of 40! run a google search and you'll find out! May god bless you with good sense...and maybe you should take up one of doreen's courses might just help you become more open minded:)

Regarding "Dr." Doreen Virtue: From Dr. Doreen's web site: Doreen, who holds B.A., M.A., and Ph.D. degrees in counseling psychology, was the founder and former director of WomanKind Psychiatric Hospital at Cumberland Hall Hospital in Nashville, Tennessee. She was also an administrator at Woodside Women’s Hospital in the San Francisco Bay Area. Both all-women psychiatric hospitals specialized in treating women’s psychological issues. Doreen also directed three outpatient psychiatric centers, including an adolescent drug and alcohol abuse center. Points: One can't obtain an undergrad in counseling psychology--there is no such degree. Dr. Doreen is not licensed by the Board of Psychology in CA. Not that she claims to be licensed in CA, but if you hold a degree in Couns. Psych, why wouldn't you get the license? Her psych. assistant status was cancelled in 1993. Licensee Name: VIRTUE DOREEN L License Type: PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSISTANT License Number: PSB21096 License Status: CANCELLED Definition REGISTRATION TERMINATED UPON REQUEST Definition Expiration Date: September 16, 1993 Issue Date: July 13, 1993 Address: 1439 E. CHAPMAN AVE City: ORANGE State: CA Zip: 92666 County: ORANGE Actions: No "Dr." Doreen: post your vita on your web site--indicate when you worked where you did--indicate for how long--indicate who your clinical supervisors were--tell us where you obtained your degrees, who your dissertation chair was, who supervised you during your pre and post docs . . . nothing to hide, right? "Dr." Doreen, you are training individuals to do work for which they are ill equipped. While these folks are likely well intentioned, they need to do the real work of obtaining a real background in psychology or counseling . . .

This writer is mispresenting Dr. Virtue, and is in need of some spiritual healing work. Disparaging articles filled with inaccuracies reveals the ignorant, non evolved level of the writer's current incarnation.

http://www.clarkson.edu/programs_of_study/programs/psychology.html http://www.clarkson.edu/psychology/ Note below that no such program is listed as "counseling psychology". THIS IS WHAT I MEANT BY UNACCREDITED... AS IN NON-EXISTENT. Psychology Adobe Document with Detailed Information (.pdf 43 KB) Over the past 20 years, virtually every Clarkson psychology graduate has found employment in a degree-related field or gone on to graduate school. How is that for results? Our emphasis on teamwork, rigorous preparation, and real-world learning contributes to this success. Your career could involve investigating and treating psychological disorders; designing and organizing the workplace to improve productivity and morale; designing efficient, healthful interfaces between humans and machines; analyzing human relationships and how they can be made more fulfilling; or identifying and changing behaviors that lead to disease. Clarkson combines two distinctive strengths that will help you pursue your goals: personalized teaching and high-powered research. As one of the smallest nationally ranked universities (according to U.S. News & World Report), our faculty get to know students as individuals. They also conduct research in areas of vital importance — and involve undergraduates in the process. The psychology curriculum at Clarkson will give you a solid foundation — both the depth and breadth of knowledge needed for success in business, industry or graduate school. You will also pursue one of five areas of interest: Health Psychology — The psychological factors important in maintaining and/or regaining health. Cognitive Psychology — The nature of conscious and unconscious thought processes (includes the study of learning and memory, motivation, perception and conscious states). Social Psychology — How people can influence and be influenced by their social environment. Physiological Psychology — How biological and physiological processes interact. Business Psychology — The science of putting psychological theory and research to practical use in business and industry. Clinical Psychology — Preparation for graduate training and jobs in social work, counseling and clinical psychology. Choosing elective courses from liberal arts, science and/or business will enable you to concentrate in areas of psychology of interest to employers. These include attitude formation, personnel selection, individual thinking processes, information processing, group dynamics, and the effect of the work environment on people's feeling and attitudes.

About Kaballah and who could study it or not ..... The rabbis of the Talmud regarded the mystical study of God as important yet dangerous. A famous talmudic story tells of four rabbis, Azzai, Ben Zoma, Elisha ben Abuyah, and Akiva who would meet together and engage in mystical studies. Azzai, the Talmud records, "looked and went mad [and] Ben Zoma died." Elisha ben Abuyah became a heretic and left Judaism. Rabbi Akiva alone "entered in peace and left in peace." It was this episode, the later experiences of individuals who became mentally unbalanced while engaging in mystical activities, and the disaster of the false Messiah Shabbetai Zevi that caused seventeenth-century rabbis to legislate that kabbalah should be studied only by married men over forty who were also scholars of Torah and Talmud. The medieval rabbis wanted the study of kabbalah limited to people of mature years and character. From: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kabbalah.html

"Virtue, who has a doctorate in counseling psychology from California Coast University, told me on the phone recently, "In my opinion, Haley Joel Osment epitomizes what an Indigo Child is." Source: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/122/story_12252_1.html California Coast University was regarded as a diploma mill but was later accredited and recognized by the US Dept. of Ed. - but not their doctorate program, which was dropped.

Savattra you are indeed wrong sister! Very very misinformed but well intentioned about Doreen's educational credentials. I did my own research and here is what I found: I emailed Doreen asking about her PhD and a member of “The Angel Therapy® Inc Staff” emailed me back with: Dr Virtue received her BA, MA and PhD from Chapman University in Orange County, California. Is Chapman University anything to do with California Coast University? Looks like Chapman University doesn't offer a doctoral program in psychology or anything closely related. Source: http://www2.chapman.edu/ac/programslisting.asp Hubbie's college, Madison University, is listed as unapproved by the state of Mississippi. Source: http://www.ihl.state.ms.us/Academic_Affairs1/MCCANonApprovedEntitiesList2005 Sketico, wanna call and see if they will verify that Doreen Virtue had founded and directed a "Womankind" psychiatric program at this hospital at some point in the past? (It's certainly conceivable.) CUMBERLAND HALL PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL 804 YOUNGS LN (615) 228-4848 NASHVILLE, TN 37207 Source: http://www.hellonashville.com/YP/c_SUBSTANCEABUSEOUTPATIENTC

From the California Coast University website, insofar as the Accreditation issue, they speak of the Distance Education and Training Council as being their accreditation source, and give a brief history, which you've glanced over and given short shrift here. "I noticed that CCU no longer offers Doctoral Degree programs. What happened? The University was awarded Accreditation with the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC.org). This accrediting agency's authority does not currently extend through the doctoral level. Therefore CCU discontinued accepting any new applications toward doctoral degrees. Student who may have already been enrolled in a doctoral degree will be allowed to complete (teach-out) that program. Does CCU plan to offer doctoral degrees? At the California Coast University Website, it also states, insofar as the accreditation process via DETC (Distance Education and Training Council, a branch of the American Council on Education--and admittedly a not-as-renowned but still-respected educational evaluation entity): "The University's Accrediting Agency does not currently accredit colleges or universities through the doctoral level. We are hopeful that the situation will change in the near future and that the Association will be granted approval from the Dept. of Education to expand its scope. At that time, the University will make application to again offer doctoral degree programs." That is to say, NO school ANYWHERE has a DOCTORAL program accredited by DETC. That is left to American Council on Education and larger Dept. of Ed. Since Cal Coast is Distance Ed primarily or in large portion, they aren't accredited by anyone but DETC. Only wher a school offers some residential study, do they have potential to be accredited by ACE. Meanwhile, I believe the larger quote above explains as well as anything what happened to Virtue--and probably to some others. They go doctorates, and probably did academic-quality work to get them, but found there is not yet a regular accrediting agency for doctorates achieved via distance study. Then, you've been unable to pin down where there is a hoax about her having been a counselor in a psychiatric hospital in Nashville--even though the name associated with her there, does seem to have existed, though a program name is murky. So--shoot me: how does ANY of that make her a fraud? Sure she's made money, and plies to right-brain dominant people, rather than the "practical" types that have brought us modern conveniences and global warming. Shoot me again--how is that worse than being a "traditional" Catholic, or something, as someone ceased being above?

I have been a psychic medium for over 17 yrs. I know that many of you are skeptical about this sort of thing and I understand. I don't give readings, but I do help those to recognize and development their psychic intuitive abilities. Through my channels and intuition I have learned that Doreen Virture is fraud. I feel that in the beginning of her business she was real, but as she went on, she was then corrupted through money. I have read various bios of her and some sound very fake as to what a psychic is. My psychic mentors in the past have taught me never to read books on spirituality, but to channel my guides for all the information that I needed to know. My father had a Ph.D. in psychology and various degrees in other medical fields. He also had a degree in parasychology in which he used to help the government conduct research on the paranormal. Though all of his research was classified, he did tell us to be very careful as to who we got involved with. He wasn't a pcychic, but a psychologist. He could read people just by talking to them, like how a psychic could. I am a psychic medium. I have done accurate readings, and I have experienced many things with other people. I am not here to push what I believe in your face. We psychics are to remain with an open mind, meaning that we listen to everything that you say. We try to understand everything that you say. Then we try to form our beliefs and opinions through what we have heard. Isn't this what everyone does on a psychological level? Try to understand what the other is saying? I believe it is called listening assertively. Most people that I talk to who listen to Doreen Virture are are not capable of this type of listening, only selective listening. Which tells me that their is some sort of brainwashing occuring. This is why I thought that I would conduct some channels on Doreen Virture.

What I wonder is, what qualifies Doreen to be a "professional" spiritual teacher? Then from there what qualifies her to be a "professional" trainer of other "professional" spiritual teachers? Last I checked we already had "professional" spiritual teachers, with a rigourous training program. Its usually called "seminary" when I hear about it, and it usually cranks out priests and pastors. These priests and pastors molest young kids, engage in extramarital affairs, marry people who will be divorced a year or two later so that he can afford a new PT Cruiser, and continuously talk about people needing to give to the church, or assassinate presidents of Venezuela. Granted not all of these "professional spiritual teachers" do these things but enough that it becomes pretty obvious that "professional" spiritual teachers aren't very professional, and have a weird definition of spiritual teaching. I wonder if Yeshua went through a "professional" spiritual teacher course before giving the Sermon on the Mount. From the way our current "spiritual teachers" act, he must have. Must have had his Phds in Theology and Pastoral Studies prominently displayed so people could know he speaks with authority when he says "Blessed are the meek..." By the same token, he must have had a limo take him into the desert for 40 days, where he sat in a 5 star hotel resisting the temptations of Satan. And when it became time to go to Golgotha, he charged $2111 for people to watch, and was flown in on a first class plane ticket. The plane landed nearby and Pontius Pilate himself rolled out the red carpet. It's true some people do need a "guru" until they are ready to lead themselves. A "true" guru would tell them when it is time to make their own way. A "false prophet" will constantly want their student licking heels. Doreen is a New Age Pharisee.

Greetings Savattra Ravi Nam Kaur: I just wanted to let you that I shared your column with New Age e-group and while some like the research, others were offended – Offended that you dare question Doreen Virtue and the Angels. Now personally, I think Doreen Virtue has an extreme case of “Love & Light Syndrome” – a contagious dis-ease running rampant in the New Age/Metaphysical/Lightworker Community. One with 'Love & Light syndrome' is akin to a Care Bear being on crack-cocaine – because the person is unnaturally happy, very delusional, and very dangerous. Anyway, I like your article and I’m glad you took the time to research and write it. You did something a follower rarely does and that’s to fact-check their leader. Now getting back to criticisms of members of this New Age e-group…some did not like your tone! Some felt your article was slanted and one-sided as you didn’t included dialog from the ‘millions’(an over-estimate IMHO) of people touched by Doreen and her angels. One called your bringing up Doreen’s fourth marriage a tacky move. Another said you seem like the Anne Coulter of the New Age Community! That’s’ serious offense… because we all know An Coulter is a mean & hateful republican – and republicans are bad! Republicans bad – Democrats good and nice! Remember the New Age belief – totally nonsensical and bogus as it is, that’s the general belief. Speaking of belief, some felt you were trying to oppose your beliefs on the readers. Now Savattra that’s being judgmental and there are no judgments in the New Age Community…along with fact-checking, thinking, and facing reality for that matter. Keep Up the Great Work Rafiq Jennings

The Secret: More New Age B.S. Author - Rafiq Jennings. The Massacre at Virginia Tech is a tragedy and my prayers for healing goes out to all those affected by it. However, it should be noted that those students and others killed in the VA Tech shootings created that reality if and only if you believe in the latest New Age craze The Secret! Yes, according the movie, The Secret, whom Oprah Winfrey and Larry King can't get enough of, your thoughts and your feelings create your own reality based on the Law of Attraction (What you put out, you get right back). The Secret promotes this as a profound, spiritual truth suppressed throughout the ages, but now available to all. So if we apply The Secret to the Massacre at Virginia Tech it means that the victims of the gunmen were thinking thoughts of mass murder and bloodshed. Right? After all, The Secret states we create the reality of being stuck in traffic with our thoughts about being stuck in traffic even in rush hour traffic because it's not the traffic congestion it's your thoughts of the traffic congestion causing the traffic congestion). You Create Your Own Reality (YCYOR)! Now, for the record, I neither subscribe to nor promote this latest asinine, New Age garbage. However, for those that do buy into Rhonda Byre's spiritual cash cow as the greatest discovery since slice bread and if the VA Tech application of The Secret didn't burst your New Age bubble, well you are in for a rude awakening once you finish reading this commentary unless you dismiss me as being fear-based! That's the common methodology in the New Age Movement to dismiss, ignore, and deny anything one is too scared to accept as fear-based! I ponder on which phrase best describes The Secret. Montalk.net references The Secret as "Faux Spirituality" because it focuses on staying positive while ignoring the negative. Stuartdavis.com calls The Secret "The Spirituality of Narcissism" because its premise is that it's all about your ego as The Universe (God) exists to cater to your every whim. Both websites accurately describes The Secret, but I decided to used term NABS (New Age B.S.) from tomkenyon.com as The Secret and its predecessor, What the Bleep? promotes these YCYOR clichs that are akin to what Kenyon calls "those little snacks you eat at cocktail parties that fill you up for a bit, and give the illusion of nutrition, but they are empty calories." And that's what The Secret is! The Secret offers what reminds me of the magic pill that magic pill most people are on a quest for to make all those bad and undesirable (fear-based) things go away! By applying The Secret, you can have that beautiful house; you can have that beautiful wife; and you can have that shiny, red bike! With taglines like that, The Secret is not that different from a multi-level marketing (MLM) infomercial because all you do is use the Law of Attraction to get anything you want from The Universe because it is the Catalog of all your hopes, dreams, and desires! No minimum labor required! No startup fees or costs! Just thinketh and it will cometh YCYOR! Now isn't that such grand spiritual' enlightenment? God is simply our catalog for our self-gratifications. The Secret teaches that you can't change the world, but you sure can manipulate God for a corvette. In The Secret, I learned that the gay community creates its own homophobia in their lives with their own thoughts. The Secret features a segment in which a gay man was being tormented about his sexuality, but when he applied The Secret, his life turned around in about 6-8 weeks! The bullies disappeared and people began to like him. Attention all gay people! Stop creating those bullies and those gay bashings into existence by thinking them into existence with your thoughts! What you thinketh, you createth. The Secret way to end homophobia is best summed up in Stuart Smalley affirmation's from Saturday Night Live, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me!" Someone needs to tell Humans Rights Campaign, Soulforce, and Southern Voice The Secret to end homophobia! In fact, maybe I should try The Secret at all the White Nationalist rallies. I'll check stormfront.org for a list of them and I will attend them thinking into reality that the white racists and I will hold hands singing We Shall Overcome. And if they call me all sorts of mean & hateful epithets not too different from the ones in a gangsta rap song, then that would be my fault for not thinking positive enough for letting those fear-based thoughts enter my head. YCYOR! Let's hope The Secret is translated into Spanish so that illegal immigrants from Mexico can go to the Storm Front rallies creating a reality of joining hands in unison singing a Spanglish version of This Land Is Your Land. YCYOR! Okay, now aside from my sarcasm, I know some people defended The Secret by naming life contracts (pre-incarnate agreements made by two or more souls for development) and karma as the reasons people experience undue hardships and suffering. However, The Secret doesn't address any of those subject matters! The Secret states to a victim of domestic violence that she created that reality with her thoughts and what she ought to do is only note the good things about her abusive husband. Golly, if only Tina Turner knew The Secret Also, The Secret does not address healing from negative emotions and releasing them it mainly states to NOT think about them at all. That is not enlightenment! That is not spiritual growth! You grow spirituality by acknowledging the negative feelings, learning from them, releasing them, and then moving on. The Secret also states we should pretend negativity in the world doesn't exits! That too is a falsehood as they are people in this world with dark intentions and manifesting them. But no, The Secret blames you for manifesting those bad things by watching the Evening News! According to The Secret, you are creating those negatives headlines in your life by watching them on TV thus thinking them into existence! YCYOR! Do you want to know The Secret to stop debt and reduce bills? Well, The Secret blames you for those fear-based bill thoughts those dreary thoughts of bills coming in the mail. So, stop anticipating bills coming in the mail and start visualizing getting checks! Yes your mortgage, your delinquent notice, and your electric bill will just disappear if you just don't think about them! YCYOR! Yes, I know I was being cynical again, but I now cease all sarcasm to point out the partial truths in The Secret. You don't want to constantly think negative as there is a power to positive thinking. You do want to be very specific about what you want in life in order to get it. You want to express gratitude in life (to God or The Universe for living for being The Secret says to show gratitude for the toys you already have). And after the MLM sales pitches for desiring more luxurious toys, The Secret then states that we all don't want all those toys. All we really want is to be happy. Oh my God, Mary J. Blige knew The Secret! Then again, Bobby McFerrin sung The Secret in "Don't Worry, be Happy!" in 1988 and that phrase came from Meher Baba inspirational cards from the 1960s. The Secret is nothing but a hodgepodge of half-baked metaphysics, quantum physics, and philosophical placebos marketed as a profound, spiritual truth suppressed throughout the centuries. If you want profound suppressed spiritual truths (the real secrets), investigated those pillaged Mesoamerican codices and manuscripts allegedly stored deep in the Vatican for The Secret is nothing more cinematic NABS. First of all, The Secret has the audacity to reduced God (or The Universe) to a catalog to pick whatever one desires while elevating the ego as God (instead of our Higher Self/Christ Consciousness within us). Secondly, it states there's enough for everyone by implying from a clip of a poor Southeast Asian rice farmer is happy with her rickety boat leaving all the Mercedes-Benzes for us Westerners! But then again that poor Southeast Asian rice farmer must not know The Secret for she won't have created her poverty with her thoughts! In fact from the perspective of The Secret, Southeast Asia and other regions of the world wouldn't have had brutal totalitarian regimes, poverty, famine and even genocide, if they didn't think them into reality YCYOR! And no, I don't believe that! That was just my last cynical statement proving the fallacy of The Secret. Point blank, The Secret is nothing but McDonaldized Spirituality. It scuffs one's disadvantage/dysfunctional beginnings with a so what' attitude as you can just change that reality by changing your thoughts. It doesn't address the work and the challenges one faces towards that change as well as the work necessary for spiritual growth. It's doesn't teach that we must confront our inner demons in order to find wholeness. And it doesn't address humanity's divine aspect within. Instead it inflates the ego as God and deflates God into a servant that serves our petty needs and pleasures. Now, do you want to you know the real secret is? The secret is Who are you? The journey of life is discovering who we are, why we are here, and what we are here to do what is your heart-felt passion? As we stop identifying with the ego as well as any societal expectations, and ingrained belief systems you've always questioned, we get closer to finding out the secret of us! That's the secret and no NABS is required.

i am a lightworker, and an empath, and there are days i wish i could be something else. i am earning my Ph.D. at a rigorous, accredited institution, and working in (eventually publishable) human subjects psychology research. i make this point because i am specifically taking this path so scientists will one day take me, and my research, seriously. that said, savattra, i know of the angels, demons, and deceptions of which you speak. i also believe doreen virtue completely and absolutely believes in her message, which is what makes her so dangerous. she, and her followers, really and truly have no idea about the doors they are opening. they are (fortunately? unfortunately?)naive about spiritual vulnerability and danger. the real trouble is that there is Truth so in many of her observations, especially about children; only she gets the interpretaion just wrong enough to be completely incorrect. yes, there are angels, and yes, they are good, but there are entities that have no qualm with appearing as an angel to gain trust. it seems to me that aboriginal traditions are much more forward in teaching protection from the dark, whereas the western new age does not want to acknowledge its presence. the buddha taught us to accept something as Truth only after thorough evaluation and analysis. thank you for the reminder that we must be careful in which doors we choose to open. L

Why is it that hostility and judgement seem to be held so much more tightly in the hearts of 'devout' followers of traditional organised religion? To let go of these things is to truly embrace 'God' - whatever your tongue calls Him. We are all magnificent facets of one glorious diamond and if you look very closely you may find that you see your own reflection and that of God in the eyes of all of humanity.

Dear Renee, I welcome your comments. It is not my intention to be judgmental although it is what my article appears to be. My fundamental point is: in the search fo God, Higher Power, Source Energy, etc ... and my agreement that all religious and spiritual paths lead to the union of soul to source... DO NOT GET POSSESSED. That is my basic message ... the soul and heart seeks the Divine ... so seek it ... BUT DO NOT GET POSSESSED. I sound superstitious but spirit attachment and possession are real phenomenons. Be your spiritual higher self not a channel for something that is ultimatley harmful to you.

Doreen Virtue. She and her ilk make a fortune out of other peoples' misery and broken dreams. The vunerable are vunerable to the likes of her. Maybe she can see angels? Who cares... I have a friend who's a fireman and he saves lives. He doesn't sell books and trinkets on it for a small fortune. Look at every single person who attends her courses. Most of them are unhappy pushing up to or gone past middle age. Doreen has basically placed herself (to them) as a quick way to get rich/famous/god/love etc. She teaches people to 'want' and to be 'out to get'. Self robbery. The pity is, some of those who believe in her are genuinely beautiful people. But show me one truly happy person who attends Doreen Virtue's classes. They are all looking for an answer outside of themselves. And they will never get it, for if they do, Doreen and the likes will be out of a job. And they don't want that.

Should be more like 'Doreen lack-0f Virtue' if you ask me. Cop on people! Don't let people like her rob you.

Regardless of the veracity of her claims or whether she earned a Ph.D. from an accredited university, what concerns me is that she is using the Ph.D. in psychology credential to boost her credibility. It sounds as though her program is not based on any recognized evidence-based psychological technique, and it is worrisome that she is putting herself forth as a representative of the psychological community. She is not a psychologist, and her apparent emphasis on her psychology Ph.D. is misleading to the consumer, who may believe that s/he is getting formal psychological treatment.

I am appreciative to Savattra for writing this article to discuss Doreen Virtue. I would have to say that I was immediatly drawn to this article because after reading a few pages of her book "Healing with the fairies", I too questioned her sanity. Since finishing this book, my lasting impression is that she is either crazy or just a plain fraud. For those of you who have read that book, do any of you talk to bush people, I mean trees? Do you see Pan the goat boy in your head? I have been interested in New Age theories for sometime now, however I am held back with the feeling that most of the stuff out there is just plain hokum. I could handle the idea, or the thought of "wouldn't it be great if fairies were real", however in my opinion Doreen took it too far. The whole book was an advertising gimmick of all of her past books. The book also seemed chaotically written. On a positive side it was an easy read and a great coversation starter. I have read many of the ariticles above and I too am worried by the fact that she refers to herself as a "spiritual doctor of psychology", not because I have researched her degree but because my gut feeling of her Title is that is BOGUS.

Yes, it is bogus. Completely. There is no such thing as a 'spiritual doctor of psychology'.

Remember the whole Indigo Culture she was promoting? Well, that seems to have gone by the wayside. She was bitten more than once by those SHE PROCLAIMED to be the chosen ones; aka Indigos.

The only time living creatures ever lash out with negativity like Savattra has done is when they are feeling threatened. If Doreen is the fraud you allege than so are the spirits you claim have tampered with people. I wonder if maybe you aren’t a fundamentalist Christian and articles like this are your way of continuing the Burning Times. Please, let’s contribute something loving to the world. If Doreen is a fraud, than what goes around comes around. If she is a fraud, it’ll come back to her. Just as you lashing out will return to you in that ever-present karmic manner that none of us can escape. I had a chance to attend a few of Doreen’s seminars and when I explained that I had been out of work due to illness, (gun sot from job) I attended everything for free. Luck? No. Love. Why is “Savattra” so angry? And please Savattra, don’t write back that you aren’t angry. It’s obvious to anyone who reads your article that you are. I wish you weren’t. It serves no good. Warning people about something you have decided you do not like just adds more darkness to the world. Is it really that maybe you wanted to be well known for something and perhaps there is a little envy there? I have no doubt that you are beautiful and brilliant in your own right. Let go of the negativity and allow for your own glory to come into your life. Don’t worry about the success of others. Stop secretly comparing yourself to them. Step into the light of your own power. When you do, you won’t need to write such meanness. You won’t even want to.

Dear Anonymous, OK ... I am angry ... arent't we all on some level? Some people express it all over the place with no focus, others direct it to something, so forth and so on. I am no more anger than PETA activists, feminists, bible thumpers, radical leftist thought provocateurs, and environmentalists. Like I said over and over again ... not all spiritual work heals. Some can harm. People go to these things when they are vulnerable and deserve the utmost care being in the frame of mind they are in. Let me ask you - if a drunk driver drove intoxicated and hurt an innocent bystander is it such a bad thing that something like MADD was founded? If William Wilberforce was so incensed at slavery that he dedicated 20 years of his life in British Parliament to outlaw the slave trade was his anger a bad thing? And when Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat to a white man in Alabama in outrage at the lack of basic dignit provided her ... is not that act of anger and the outcry of it that sparked the American civil rights movement ... simply the spark that create a flame that forced an issue of human exploitation to the table for resolution? Anger is anger. What one chooses to do with it is another story. I am angry that vulnerable people go to these healers only to be confused and possibly hurt even more. Maybe sometimes there is no money exchanged. But when someone is tampered there is a cost, in lost time alone, and that is a tragedy.

That anonymous writer is one of Doreen's crowd. I would know the use of language anywhere.

And why would somebody who's sticking up for somebody else go as 'anonymous'? Makes NO sense to me, unless they're ashamed of course.

I am probably the only one who is going to agree with Savattra. I can attest to how New Age can open you up to "dark" spirits. I am lucky I came out of this. The people who knew me suspected I was on drugs. The ones who really knew me did not - since they knew I didn't do drugs or ever would. But they did think I was suffering from post traumatic stress and one family member thought I was schizofranic (spelling wrong). The ONLY thing that kept me holding onto sanity was my child. But I can tell you there was a definite moment there where I nearly lost it and was mere seconds away from committing suicide. New Age is NOT something to go lightly into. And it is true if God gives you a gift then fine but it has to be guided by Him. BE careful what you seek!! ALOT of prayers and going to my pastor helped me. I still ocassionally feel the effects. And I had a Catholic friend tell me it took her 7 years to get completely free. New Age is very deceptive. You should pray to the Holy Spirit to guide you first before seeking anything. He will be your best guide. Savattra isn't being judgemental. I believe she is a voice of reason in what can be a wild forrest of deception. I actually am concerned for our children(teens) who seem to be attracted to this too. They are more susceptible. BTW, I have no personal feelings either way toward Doreen Virtue. I just happened upon this article during a search and wanted to back Savattra up. I believe she is speaking out of concern for innocent people who may not be aware of what they are getting into. Best wishes to all.

Something else I forgot to mention. Two of the angels Doreen does mention in one of her books are actually "fallen" angels. That I found in either Jewish writing or islamic writing (I don't remember which) but they are Azazel and Metatron. Also, I lost alot while I was trying to get out of "new age". I lost all my clients, I nearly lost my job, I lost my boyfriend (whom I loved) - he moved away and thought I was crazy - which at the time he was probably right, I lost a friendship, and my respect. The thing is it didn't really appear to be "bad" But then I started attending church more often, attending bible study and praying. That's when the "evil" began to manifest. Intially, I dropped out of the chuch for awhile but then eventually returned to let my pastor know what was going on. That is how I also got help - but it was a battle.

It is interesting to read this page as I've just read Doreen's book called Lightworkers way. From what I've read Doreen has talked about her life in great detail and it is for the reader to make up his/her mind. The book does not contain any brainwashing stuff. Also as adults we should be able to have some degree of reasoning and faith within us before embarking on such books. Recently I've been reading about books on angels and while I was in a book shop Doreen's book somehow was on the shelf so I read it. Her stories are day to day stories of how people work hard and face the daily realities of their their lives. Her work is very inspiring to say the least. What should be of concern are the chapters of mediums and so on which I believe speaking for myself I would not be involved with. But for those who want to become healers then they must have to do their checks. The subject of angels has interested me recently but I can understand when posters here talk about demons and fallen angels and so on. One must be first well established in his/her faith. Equally if one believes in Unity of Mankind then one will read the wisdom of other faiths too and see the unity of wisdom that connects us all. This is kind of therapy for the soul to know that we are kind of linked in a way and have one spiritual connection. Angels are part and parcel of faiths like Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The angels protect us and are there for us and they can do no harm to us but sadly as mentioned in this thread there are demons who can disguise in many forms and it is upto us to seek protection from God and surround ourselves with such Holy Love and protection. In this day and age we are exposed to the mystical side of religions and we need to believe in our True Self to be able to distinguish the truth from the untruth. If people are already having personal problems they should rely on their reasoning first and should not hand their soul to someone else. Each one of us must surround himself with his/her teacher for example in Christianity it will be the Light of Jesus(as) and with such Love one should never lose the way. Equally there is a beautiful wisdom from Hinduism and Buddhism, Islam and so on. For every believer his/her teacher must be the starting point to kind of get the focus s/he needs. One should never think that s/he is equal to Jesus(as) or can work his miracles just like that for that alone will teach you that you are not on the right path. I think starting with Loving yourself is the first step towards enlightenment followed by forgiveness and so on. For women I think mother Marry( may peace and blessings be on) will do wonders for our internal healing. I come from muslim background and enjoy interfaith wisdom. I think a lot of people underestimate the simple teachings of Jesus(as) when he says that he is the Alpha and the Omega. His light is manifested in all of us and it is upto to us to tap into that. Where there is Light there is no room for darkness. We should all trust our inner voice of reasoning and leave everything else to God.

Buddha, Christ, Krishna ... have teachings that endure because they are of the light and of God. These were the true spiritual teachers for eternity. I am a Roman Catholic but also believe that true religions are born of humility and sincerity. Doreen Virtue is about money. Pure and simple. Sadly, people lose their souls, savings, and sanity in the process.

Now... I know that everyone is entitled to their opinions.... But you are a FUCKING DOUCHE BAG!!! HEY GUESS WHAT? Is doreen killing people? Noooooo. Is she hurting anyone? Noooooooo. She is not forcing you to buy the books? No. Are you stupid for posting this article? yes. I could argue with you all day, but I have better things to do at the moment.

Listen, all the positive "energy" love you think you can project out will not combat this "darkness" Analyze yourself or whatever else you want to say is missing in the person that delves in this. And I am not saying to some degree you can't be right (pearl) because a person does have to be "grounded" but there is more to it and it is not for just anyone. And just because Doreen puts first name peoples in her books and how the angels have helped them doesn't mean you have heard all there is in regards to her angel therapy. Do you think she (or anyone else) is going to put the negative stuff in their books? Doreen writes in Divine Guidance that the "fallen" angels are "our" own projected darkness and that they cannot harm you (it's our own negativity). That is pure BS. I didn't just go into this lately. I had meditated - I have felt others (angry) engergy go out at me and I have deflected it. I've had visions, etc. But what I went through was different. It was a spiritual force greater then me and the one thing it could not stand against was the Blood of Jesus. Previous I had been using holy water and holy oil....blessings by priests....calling on St. Michael all these things held it at bay for a short while. But the Blood of Jesus got rid of it.

I also wanted to mention that someone who has a vendetta and wants to harm you (yea, yea I hear you all say the 3xs back to that person). My Guardian Angel, Michael, Raphael, etc. Did show me the witch who put out the spirit on me. She put out much more then the 3x any negativity I have ever put out in my life (I don't want you to think anything bad about the angels I mentioned because they are indeed wonderful, powerful angels).... Savattra, isn't being an A**hole. People go into a store looking for something. They see these books with all this positive stuff about Angels and "spirits" and they don't realize there is more to it. It's written with so much "fluff" The "new" age stuff that is out now can be misleading to someone who doesn't fully know what they are involving themselves in. I know what people like Pearl are saying a person has to be grounded in their faith and religion and themselves before they go into this but most people who go into the bookstores and libraries looking are "looking" and may open themselves up to something they didn't know anything about. This stuff can attach itself not just to the person who delves in it but to their generations. This matters. You can't go into it all positive and peaceful and think I am just a loving person with positive energy and nothing will happen to me. "la..la..la..la" I don't know about Doreen's motives. I know alot of people feel Savattra is "attacking" her but if you look underneath you will see what Savattra is saying. Writing books like this are misleading to a public that isn't aware of what the spirit world has in it. Just because you close your eyes and hide under the covers and chant to yourself "the darkness is not there" doesn't mean it isn't. And basically these books make it sound like that. READ the bible REALLY READ it. It is all in there. The generational curses (say a grandparent of yours had a demon that attached itself to him - it follows the generation), The bible is a very good source of answers people overlook (no I am not a bible toter). If you have something to learn God will let you learn it even if it's the hard way. Pearl...you are right people do have to be grounded in their religion and faith but the majority that pick up these books aren't aware and that is why people like Savattra are writing. The books like Doreens are written with out warnings - they make everything sound like so much fluff. It's not "care bears" magic. But it sounds like that. I have spoke to teenagers who are looking at this stuff and it sounds appealing to them but they aren't knowledgable about the rest and that's what is scarey..

Today I purchased Archangels & Ascended Masters by Doreen Virtue and to tell you the truth I find it an illuminating read. For some time I have been interested in the subject matter about which Doreen talks and it has only further increased my knowledge about ascended masters, angels, etc, much like any other outlet has. I get no feelings of ill-will nor do I feel any sort of malicious intent on Ms. Virtue's part, however as with anything in life, "caveat emptor"! Many aspects of life are not without their fair share of perceived flaws, mistakes or errors, religion included. As someone who came from a strict Catholic background I would like to state that I have not in any way, shape or form abandoned my beliefs nor have I turned my back on God. In fact, if one actually read what Ms. Virtue wrote, she does stress the point that all the spiritual beings are aspects of and emanations of the one creator, i.e. God. Nothing I have read thus far has shown that Doreen in any way tells people to discard their beliefs for the sake of hers; if one should do so, it displays more of a lack of solidity on one's part and weakness of one's faith than it does any duplicitous will on the part of Doreen. Quick abandonment of one's faith shows an insincerity more so than ignorance. I see her works as an addendum to my knowledge, which is my main goal. I believe that God leads us all on a path to discover in time, and to assume that if we should follow strictly what any faith says (this goes for Christianity as well as Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism etc....) it shows a shallow understanding of life, period. NO book, text, scroll, faith or anything can and has accurately predicted everything that shall pass. Use your mind and the brain you were given to find what is right for you. Mistakes will be made of course, but unless we screw up at some point as a people we will never learn. Do not leave your life up to anyone or anything to be lived for you. Looking for a quick fix in any arena is foolish. No right or wrong answers exist solely within one source, Ms. Virtue included; if it were the case than one faith would clearly stand out but the very notion of multiplicity in terms of religion shows that no one has the "right" answer. Life is subjective people, get used to it. Free speech has always existed in some form throughout time. Savattra's point is being missed in that people should just be aware of what they are getting into before they delve into something, thats all. No biggie! The attacks are senseless and childish and should stop. None of us will all agree on the same thing especially when it comes to religion/spirituality. Lastly, just as a quick point, be careful when you give your money to anyone, after all, all religion to a degree is like a business; all demand some form payment. If one wants to pay the price for something its their prerogative but they must also know that there are consequences to everything in life. All we can do is pass down experience and benefit of knowledge and let people make up their own minds. Should someone get burned in the process, so be it; its part of living. Nothing is full-proof and we all have been burned and some will be burned again but eventually we shall all at some point see the light. Peace and love!

I have been to see Doreen Virtue, and she has expressed herself in a way that is both honest and virtuous. Only those who follow the way of the Catholic Church, who are worried about the real truth of God and the punishing manner in which Catholics celebrate God, would take this attitude against Doreen. Those who know and believe, and follow the true path of God without interference from Church or others who "know better" would be worried about people like Doreen Virtue.

wierd

I am not sure I have been so shocked in a long time, and then laughed so hard in the next breath. It is so nice that we all have opinions, but the point of an opinion is just that. Our Opinion. Not a battle, not that our point is correct or the only point. Hands off to all who speak the words of the way it is...Who cares about how many times she has been married, and yes she has not murdered anyone. And for another little point...there are many true doctor's that have degrees that should never ever have recieved one ever....so they basically have license's to kill. The anonymous reader that was shot...on Sept. the 6th, 2007, 1:08 (check out that number in the angel numbers) had such wonderful words and my goodness so true.........now my question. "That anonymous writer is one of Doreen's crowd. I would know the use of language anywhere." quoted from hurricanebaby....Do you know Doreen? How would you know this 'language' if you are not part of her crowd? Are you defecting? Anyway, we all have our own minds and basically she does preach peace and harmony, and as one person wrote, she hasn't killed anybody.....and I don't think she wants too........but her motivation is to Motivate everyone to succeed.......Just like she is........and to live a wonderful peaceful happy life and feel safe. And it is kind of nice to think that when we go.......it will be pleasant. What do you think Savattra? Where will you go? No one really knows what will happen. The thought of it being pleasant makes it a little easier to deal with. Well, Thank you for a very interesting evening reading through all this and to all of you who support Doreen with such awsome words thank you, and for all of you who support Savattra that is wonderful too. But Savattra I really think that you are taking 'too much on' as the reader who said we are all grown ups and can make our own decisions....let it go. It will eat you up if you don't. Why don't you make an appointment and meet her yourself Before you pursue attacking her when you don't even know her in person. (Unless I missed something and you already have.) Good night and Bless everyone..................Angel 1111

oh maaaan.

Bill, you took all this time to read through all of this.......and all you can say is 'oh maaaan? Just curious....

I echo Bill's pretty obvious in meaning oh maan and Ash Brittany's wierd.

different

I just want to say that I have read a few of Doreen's books and more books like hers from other authors. I thank God that I stumbled upon her book and the others I have read. It gave me so much inspiration. I truelly know that the Angels exsist and are here to help us all. I had some very unforgettable experiences with Angels. I have never seen with my eyes. But I heard clearly, the voice. There is a power in all of us and as it says in the Bible that God made man in the image of himself. We are not God but we do have power to make our life the way we want it. God loves us and that was one of the many gifts given to mankind. Many people are fooled and misled to think that we should be poor to be loved by God, we shouldn't do the things that make us happy, because it's against God's will, But God wants us to be happy and to live our lives fully in a good and honest way. I was baptized as Catholic as a baby. I beleive in Jesus Christ a our Savior and I know he has saved me so many times. Loving God and Jesus led me to finding the Angels, and thank you Lord for it.They have changed my life in so many ways and I will always be grateful for God, that he led me to the books and the websites that i have come across, because I am a true beleiver, that the Angels are here to help us and want to help us, but pleas e, I would never order an Angel or demand help. Ask, yes. They have helped me. If it is against the will of God then the Angels don't intercept, we must learn from that experience. But trust they are always around. Always!

Ok, ok. I'm wrong. Doreen Virtue is amazing and tells the truth and doens't make millions on the backs of people's hopes and dreams. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Wise up people. I would know the use of language by her "followers" anywhere because I was taken in by her for over two years. She is a complete fraud; and if she wasn't a complete fraud then, she certainly is now. Nothing personal, just the truth. One more thing; one of the contributers to this article says that some doctors who have real degrees should not be allowed practise as it's giving them a license to kill. AT LEAST THEY HAVE FUCKING DEGREES!!! NOT SOME CORRESPONDANCE COURSE SHITTY THING THAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!! And yes; I have "defected" as Angel1111 puts it. Thank fuck. It is better to love than to be loved. Maybe Doreen should practise that.

I've read your articles, and notice that they all center on your burning female spiritual teachers at the stake. Is this misogyny or jealousy that I sense? Lord knows that there are many male spiritual teachers out there that should be analyzed -- but you are suspiciously quiet on those fronts . . . hmm . . . Anyway, as someone who has actually attended a Doreen Virtue workshop and read a few of her books (I'm an avid reader of many, many books), I want to correct something that you are advocating erroneously: Doreen started her workshop out with a very clear statement to the effect of: "I do not advocate worshipping angels. The angels don't want to be worshipped. They want all glory to go to God." I also read that statement, or its equivalent, in each of her books that I've so far read. It's fine to attack based on facts, so let's get our facts straight here. And please let's be equal opportunity and go after some male spiritual teachers next!

This writer is coming from the background of the Catholic Church. Maybe she should study older history and she will find that a lot of the New Testement is a creation of the Catholic Church which also murdered over 19,000,000 people who did not agree with the rubbish the Catholic Church taught. I don't think that is very Christian in thought or deed. As far a religion is concerned it seems that most wars are started by religion and the Republican party is supposed to be the Christian right who are ready to go to war at anytime. I have read a couple of Ms Virtures books and enjoyed them, however I make no judgement of the books or her. I just don't like attacks from the kettle calling the pot, black. And as for the foul mouthed poster, enough said.

I am so amazed with the things you have said in your article and comments. You have absolutely NO IDEA. I grew up as a cathoilc and all I found are lies and hate and fear. What doreen writes in her books is NOT hurting anyone I have found noone who has been harmed by her writings, quite to the contrary. I really think you need to take a few steps back and take a good hard look at your spiritual path rather than putting down others!!!!

I've just read through all of that - phew! I think that DV is fluffy and Lightweight, that she is trying to do 'good' and ignore 'bad', trying to spread a 'positive' message etc. but it must not be forgotton that,she is a canny and shrewd businesswoman - making a fair whack for herself. I do not feel angry towards her, but i have often felt frustrated by the fact that it all costs £$. i can see how people like that can be dangerous to vulnerable (sp?) people - though it is not claimed, the magic bullet, or panacea is implicit in the material. i have read her books, and found them to be similar to the Da Vichi Code - drawing from (or rather skimming the top of) a huge corpus of information, study, misinformation, research and wisdom. I'm a Pagan - i was baptised RC, brought up in 'Catholic Ireland', in case you are wondering. I have always been spiritual - when I was young, i believed what i was taught in my catholic school and in the church, yet I always sought 'god' in Nature, under tree's etc. I became a pagan through researching the history and prehistory of Irish women. this led me on a voyage of discovery where i learnt about a more balanced understanding of divinity, with room for both male and female aspects, the divine in all life etc. Im still studying, learning etc, 16 years later. In the process, i have obtained 2 degrees (both very accredited, from NUIGalway - BA arts and MA Landscape Archeology) I consider myself an animist, pantheist, Taoist; sometimes a druid; sometimes I'm called a witch (both paths resonate with my ancestral lineages). this is just to tell you where I'm coming from. I consider mySelf to be a diviner - i read cards, tealeaves, fires etc. I found out a few years ago that my maternal grandmother used to read tealeaves etc. so there is a bit of a family gift. But i am so careful when reading for people, I try to posit possible future events as results of actions and behaviours now, to guide people towards their fullest florishment, to bring meaning into events. i use angel cards (angela mcgarr)- i have found that amazing energies can be channelled, but daily practice is needed to make changes - these energies are of very high frequencies, that don't always 'stick'. some things have to be walked through. and sometimes shit just happens, no reason, destiny's curveball. I tend to use the angel cards alongside another deck, or as a final message, a positive note. angels are not just known in the JudeoChristian cosmologies - winged beings feature in many pantheons, sometimes derogated into Fairies or wee people (from the Sidhe); there are Hindu Devis, etc. My favourite is the Brian Froud Fairy oracle - there are multidimensional Beings in this deck called singers. I do understand the dangers Savattra refers to, and i have seen it happen, usually not demons, though, but other people, or human spirits whose unresolved pain and trauma hold them here on this plane, attacking or attatching themselves to people. the worst demons are those within people, those unacknowledged parts of ourselves. Any spiritual process can mess people up, and walking the path towards magical or spiritual practice is not easy - there is an Irish poem about becoming a druid that says (translated): "Seven years your right Under a flagstone, in a quagmire Without food, without sustenance But the thirst ever tormenting The Law of the plough your right And prayer your only language If you return (not dead) Perhaps you'll spend your life a druid" I think the danger is that people can be exposed to a lot of energy that opens them prematurely, and that they are unable to protect themselves or process this. parts of them resist it. Not only that, perhaps some people start to walk the worlds, inadvertantly maybe. This is also dangerous, for there are entities that do not like, or actively dislike or are predatory towards us. I will not define them as evil, except merely in the sense Acquinas meant - as that which is percieved as bad by a being and moved away from. there are many ways to understand these things. i do not blame DV or her ilk for this, but i do think being too fluffy is dangerous, for vulnerable people yes, but also that it constitues a level of denial that is often evident in abusive situations. This total positivity is not good, in my opinion - monstrous abuses go unquestioned, unchallenged - when has DV or her cohorts spoken out against the Gulf War, against child poverty? what methods does she give for healing childhood trauma, sexual abuse, domestic violence? it's not enough just to forgive - there are deep processes to walk through, and sometimes maintaining anger towards an abuser serves as a shield, a protection. My experience is that sometimes angels help, but not always. I have seen miraculous things happen in my own life, (often the change was in me) but there have been other times where no amount of asking calling or praying to angels brought any result. i have learnt thatthe answers lie within. In my opinion, angels are seeing and working from very different perspectives than we are - we are incarnate, and that miraculous fact makes all the difference. at times I question their aims, whether it is necessarily good for us, for Mother Earth. well I could go on, but that's my tu'pence 'ort for the moment Blessed Be

I dated Doreen Virtue for a while in the 1990s. I have to say that she said nothing to me about angels or spirituality at that time. I'm a little surprised that she is now an expert in these matters.

I think that if this women (along with other accomplished and self actualized individuals) was poor, a no name counselor tucked in some state funded mental health agency barely making between 25-33K (that is the reality even for a fully licensed Master's level counselor in our country) no one would make a big deal about her life, her credentials and her philosophies. It is sad to see people who have become affluent and famous be bashed by others. She is spreading messages of love, forgiveness, healing etc. Why should she be bashed? Besides, who cares where her doctorate is from? She is not performing heart surgery on you. You are an informed consumer, you decide to whom to go for help. If you don't want to go to her don't but why bash? People that get higher degrees especially in the liberal arts areas that are not "accredited" do it for their own self development afterall. They know they will not be able to do much with those degrees in the "traditional field" Schools are expensive. Not every working adult can go to school full time and pay thousands of dollars or god forbid borrow a high percentage school loan. Get a life people. Instead of being vindictive in your writings and send judgemental messages, start writing and spreading your own messages but this time full of love, compassion and other positive information. I find it a bit paranoid to be :checking the persons credentials (you said before hiring them- you were in no way intending to hire her that is evident from your writing. She's a writer, speaker, and a card reader. People rarely do those checks even when they go to their dentists or chiropractors etc. What the....??? Peace!

Thanks Doreen for defending yourself. Great to see the debate spark ideas and ultimatley the real truth in all this.

Very fair comments from Savattra.... You have to be very careful of people who claim to work miracles.

Virtue has revised this ancient role by telling people that the angels are our errand boys just like the Greek pagan myth of Mercury and his winged feet! OMG do you really hear what you are saying? Have you ever actually read one of her books? Obviously you have no idea what this beautiful lady is trying to do !!!!!!

Why does this author attack female spiritual teachers only? It feels like misogyny or jealousy to me.

The author has her points...however she appears to be overly hysterical and really is being far to opinionated. And I really do not think that she has truly researched Doreen properly. She seems to be reading what she wants to read and make her thought to be what is correct. I guess what I am trying to say is, if a person wants to believe in Doreen or anbody or thing else for that matter....and they are a grown up with their own thought process...........Why is her way the way it should be. I myself, when I think I know something or feel I am right about something......can go into a tail spin and go on and on and on.......until I finally listen to a whole bunch of people battling me and then I realize. It really doesn't matter what I think is right. We all have our own opinions in life. So I tell myself to just give it up........and then I am fine. The comments back to her actually made my day. At first I was shocked by her write up, but then after reading through all the feedback......I had some very good laughs (which I had not done for a long time) and the whole thing was a really good read....... I hope that she has it out of her system. I like Doreen's reading and I do most of it from her sites. I choose to believe what I want to and what I don't I let it roll. So really she has not made a lot off of me.....and she would probably not care.. Thanks for the good read Savattra...That actually sounds like the name of an Angel...:)

I did not see where Doreen virtue herself had replied in this forum. Is this more spite? Or can another woman be as informed in knowing what the mental health field out there is offering its conselors? Wow! Yes, I agree w/ another person that females seem to be targeted at least in this forum. However, John Gray has also been targeted along with Doctor Phil, etc. It is just malice out there when people become affluent. What is the world coming to? Again, my point- if a person does not like what another one offers, teaches/preaches, practices then don't go to them. I certainly do not but I do not start forums bashing others who do even if their views and practices differ from mine.

Sending you ALL Love and Light on your paths of enlightenment.

I have not had a good experience with so called priests etc, fist bad experience was at a friend's funeral, the priest was mad at the parents as they ran a pub so more people went there on Sunday than church and he made sure everyone knew how mad he was during the service. second time was after my sister killed herself, my distraught father got a call from a priest telling him as my sister was possessed by the devil we could not have a proper service in a church.......very comforting!! I did get more comfort from going to a spiritulist church but even then there were a few people I found would prey on peoples misfortunes. I have read a few of Doreen's books and I do enjoy them, as for going to her classes ......not bloody likely. I was just wondering if any one has done any resurch on some of the people featured in The Secret, They too promise all the happiness and abundance you will ever need, just so long as you have enough money.

I would also like to send you All Love and Light on this awesome life journey we are on.  Dreams can come true.  Thank you Angels of Dawn.  Also there are so many wonderful letters written here.  Down South - you nailed some amazing points.  But Ishtarcelt some of your words were very scarey.  Blanche22 how aweful and yet what you say is true.........and priests have gotten away with this type of behaviour for many many years.  And that is sad.  But just as there are good and evil in everything............there are many wonderful priests and ministers and whatever else they are called in all the Religions.  Religion has been the root to a lot of what has happened in the world - review the words of Down South.

Be well, be happy, do some good deeds because you WANT to and start loving yourselves.  We will all feel a lot better. A stray wild cat, nearly frozen to death, came to my house on a - 20 below 0 degrees night just before Christmas.  He now lives underneath the front Porch of my house which has windows. 

I get the most wonderful feeling when I look in at him because although he is still not tame - the look of Love on his little face that he gives me everytime - honestly, no matter how rotten everything is and how broke we are - his little face perks me up and makes me remember what life is about.  One tiny little boy cat who was a frozen ball of snow.......and shows me his gratitude with his eyes. :)

Hope you all are blessed this New Year........with Love, Angel 1111

hey yo!  Interesting article.. very interesting....  

But you're right... don't bash someone for the sake of it; it's better to love than be loved.  S.I.M.P.L.E as that.  Not easy to practice though.....

I can bash at times myself.  Must not do it for the New Year.  

Let's try spreading Love.  That's a fairly untried concept.

All the best,

M

**Looks up**

That was me by the way who wrote the last one...

lets be clear, spreading love is the most useful thing you can do, however for me love comes in many forms. i have more appreciation for love that asks tough questions and points out my blind spot than so called love that feels it necessary to be positive no matter what. Sometimes lots of harm can result from the best of intentions...Einstein and the atom bomb being a famous example..

Truth can set you free but first it might be pretty painful, If doreen Virtue is milking vulnerable people she will pay a price for that, even if on a concious level it's all sweetness and light.

have to agree babe.. have to agree.....

Replying to angel1111 ; how were some of my words scarey?

HI Ishtarcelt.  Your comment was very deep and you obviously have insite and have experienced things because you are allowed to and it seems scarey.  For example, most people could never understand what a witch would go through.  You analize this amazingly.  I wonder what Savattra would have to say about what you said?

You must be a very interesting person.  To have the knowledge that you have of this subject I guess is a better way of putting it...........that is scarey to me.  I can't imagine what would happen to the world if we could all see like you.  Thus the lack of knowledge seems better, however, is it or not?  

Anyway, very good read.  Thank you,

Angel1111

To the writer aka SAVATTRA real name-

Katherine Alexandra Christensen...... AKA SAVATTRA I think you need to stop bashing all of these successfull women (I did a search in regard to the comments you've posted about other writers/speakers that are quite successfull. It seems to me that you are on a personal vendeta of some sort.  In some of your postings you identify yourself as a "I am a lawyer, a Catholic, and an intuitive healer.." Hmm, intuitive healer lawyer. Plese get a life and stop bashing others who obviously are quite more successful than you are if you have all this time to write about people all these awful things. Why don't you keep your negative views to yourself before someone sues you for defermation of character? I am sure the public can make an informed consent on their own or you think they are dumb sheep that you need to lead? And besides, there is regional accreditation and other sorts of accreditations. In one of yoru posts you said that Sonia Choquette had a "fake degree" Please, woman, her degree is accredited by the drugless association. By the way, in which of hte 50 states are you a licensed lawyer? Elswhere you wrote that you had had a problem with the board in Chicago and that is why you allegedly paid $400 to Choquette to do a psychic reading to you. I mean, give me a break!!! 

Katherine Alexandra Christensen...... AKA SAVATTRA I think you need to stop bashing all of these successfull women (I did a search in regard to the comments you've posted about other writers/speakers that are quite successfull. It seems to me that you are on a personal vendeta of some sort.  In some of your postings you identify yourself as a "I am a lawyer, a Catholic, and an intuitive healer.." Hmm, intuitive healer lawyer. Plese get a life and stop bashing others who obviously are quite more successful than you are if you have all this time to write about people all these awful things. Why don't you keep your negative views to yourself before someone sues you for defermation of character? I am sure the public can make an informed consent on their own or you think they are dumb sheep that you need to lead? And besides, there is regional accreditation and other sorts of accreditations. In one of yoru posts you said that Sonia Choquette had a "fake degree" Please, woman, her degree is accredited by the drugless association. By the way, in which of hte 50 states are you a licensed lawyer? Elswhere you wrote that you had had a problem with the board in Chicago and that is why you allegedly paid $400 to Choquette to do a psychic reading to you. I mean, give me a break!!! 

She had a psychic reading?  How can she believe in something like that and not in angel therapy.  You should go and have a crystal healing with a true crystal healer Savattra.............it is awesome.  But Oh well, I guess that people who can SEE the future are real, but the chance that there may be an Angel hovering around would seem ridiculous......

Your Angels still love you Savattra, they probably try and get your attention all the time but you choose to ingnore them.......:)

Haven't heard from you for awhile........are you not interested anymore?

Angel1111

hi, just found this forum lately and could not believe it as I have been quite confused lately about my thoughts on Doreen virtue.Over the last year 2 yrs ive purchased most of  her books as I was very interested in angel therapy and angel cards.We dont have much of a choice where I live of different authors and doreens books seems to take over the bookshops.I enjoyed the books very much and read her life story, use her angel cards and have taken on alot of her advice, however I did find alot of the books contained similar material so I had to check through any book I was buying to make sure it was different from any previous one I had. I also notice lately more products for sale which to be honest are quite expensive for what they are e.g card reading kit? it would have been handy if she had brought that out first as many of us have the cards at this stage I no its good for beginners but there isnt alot cards in it,now I see another kit from her and her son?.Anyway my biggest disappointment is the oracle board that i purchased wasnt sure wether to use it or not when doreen stated she had used ouija boards? that is definatly not on gods side of things? (you cant really work on both sides) but my board has not done what it claims it can do whatsoever and sadly I feel its a bit of a gimmick im disappointed because I fear a greed of money taking over with all these items I even gave it to a lady I no who is a psychic because I thought maybe it would better for her but she was disappointed also. On the board theres a yes/ no section to you answers but I really should have known if this board really did answer accurate to yes/no questions in fairness wouldnt everyone have one?Also on reading the section in one of the books on if practising dont charge too little? I understand people have to make a living and I agree if you give card/psychic readings you have to charge for your time and you did study to use them however I feel surely if you get the gift of healing people its a wonderful gift not many receive it and if it comes from above I dont think he would agree to charging? Im not over religious but have suffered with my health for years I have had ailments cured by a man who was a business man but got a vision from god and a healing gift but was asked to give up everything he had money/house ect and go to this run down retreat centre and heal from there down in the back of beyond town in ireland, he did and people come there all the time theres been alot of serious cures happened down there and im one of them he is recognised by the church over here and the great thing is he works every day healing,travelling,and what does he charge? absolutely nothing he survives on donations him and his family of 7 children I dont know many people that would do that but that is the definition of a real healer !

I have never joined anything like this before, so a comment Virgin if you like will adequately describe me. I'm shocked at the hatred for Doreen by some writers, I have only read a couple of her books but I am sure, last I checked, she was a human being who at best is try to give some people hope and add a little love to our lives and enlighten the path to God and our Angels. No harm done right? Religion has been doing it for thousands of years. New Age? At one time Catholicism and all other denominations were new age. Time line appropriate of course. A conversation earlier with my sister Shannon, who suffers dearly with Multiple Sclerosis, was that of God and Angels and how she could better communicate with them so that she could feel better both physically and mentally, was all information I got from Doreen's book that I just purchased 5 days ago. Our conversation was wonderful ans she felt wonderful! Is that the work of someone doing evil? I think not, anyone who takes time to share love is doing God's work, and yes she is getting paid but aren't priest and parrishonners alike?

Crystal gal.......Glad to hear your sister has found something to make her feel good.  That is the Intention of Doreen, and I have believed in Angels well before I came across her, and many people have the same thoughts and feelings that she does.  Many times when I feel so afraid and just have had enough,  I look up to see the numbers 11 or 111 etc., and honestly.......it makes me feel good.  And my whole thought process changes, and I can smile and I can cope......and that may seem silly, but I mean when times are really really tough to the point of I just don't know how to go on...........there are my numbers.

What that means?  I don't know, however I do know that it can not possibly be coincidence.  Somebody or something is just giving me that little pick your self up and i really do get courage and strength.

And we all grew up with fairy tales, that never hurt anyone, and if Angels are just fairy tales, well as I said before, we are adults, we have our own thought.. We can enjoy something, just as kids enjoy Santa.  We can believe what we want.  I love my Angels.....

Enjoy the wonderful feeling.  And watch how many Pennies you find in the next week.  Let me know.

Angel 1111 :)

Dear Angel 1111 :),

I was so glad to have received a sweet reply, As for the pennies I have come across a few actually, and as I do with all pennies, I recite " pick up up pennies that are around you and all day long the angels will surround you". What a pick me up that is :) Your numbers are interesting, the universe opens up at 11:11 a.m. and p.m.. You probably knew that, but I still find it interesting. I quite agree with the growing up with Fairy Tales and all but I do truley believe in Angels. They make me feel safe when I'm afraid, happy when I'm sad and confident when I'm not sure, now ya all can say it is all in yer head but isn't everything?...

Yours in Spirit,

Crystal Gal

I feel like there is a lot of negativity and arrogance coming from those who defend Doreen Virtue and those who choose not to believe her. 

I was told that she does receive messages just that she doesn't understand them fully. That is where the danger comes in. it's better to remain silent than to teach half truths. THIS IS WHAT SHE IS DOING.  I use to believe what she use to write and speak. It changed when the divine realm intervened in my life.

Her being married 4 times and maybe having several sexual mates in between does affect her aura. Which is why I am told repeatedly to remain faithful to one mate in this lifetime so we can share each other’s energies in purity and help each other to evolve.

There are many people out there with depleted and defiled auras reeking of evil. Who are negative influences. So imagine being intimate with these energies it detrimental to our auras and well being.  Plus the more our auras emit positive energies of good thoughts, good words, and good deeds and not sexual indulgence we are better conduits to the divine realm. This is something which she and many other “New age Spiritualists” lack. They work for money and money is their god. Which is why there is no such person who is a Reiki Master or such people as The indigo’s or Crystals or whatever trendy incarnation is to be believed in. We all have our karma to live in this lifetime. Good or bad. So if we are evolved and are more spiritually knowledgeable (which comes from within and not from the media or books ect, ect) than others thank god for the efforts that we put in our past lives to get to such a status in our spiritual progression.  

It's better to believe in yourselves and in god than to go out and get the information and be influenced by their words, thoughts and deeds.

I welcome all criticism hahahaha.

after reading alot of the comments about Doreen Virtues work, what i have noticed is that almost all of you have missed an incredible point.  there has been alot of name calling, mainly towards the writing of the article at the beginning of the page.  what i would like to remind you all, and is incredibly important, is we are all at different stages in our spiritual journey,  this writer has chosen to write about his own version of truth, and that is okay! like people in organised religions today, that is where they need to be for the spiritual awareness they are experiencing at this time.  i commend the author of this article for feeling so strongly about his beliefs, he chose to share them in a very public way. remember, that is the truth for him/her at this stage of their spiritual awareness. there is no wrong or right here.  we are all on a different path, but the journey will end at the same destination.  remember who YOU are, and dont condem. this person doesn't deserve that.  in the eyes of God, he, like all of us, are perfect and whole, engulphed in the white light of Love.  it is very easy to condem, but remember that while condeming, we are really condeming ourselves.  while this author is seeing our special friends, whether they be ascended masters, archies or angels through the eyes of fear, it is not always going to be that way...  it is simply where he is in this incarnation.  but we cannot know where he/she will be going and seeing in the future.  wrap him in the white light of love, and see him through divine eyes.  he is already perfect in the eyes of God.

just a little after thought...i am a Spiritual therapist, and i do not charge for my services.  (i work on a donation system where if no one pays a cent, that is absolutely fine). but that in no way  makes me need to condemn others who do charge.  we are all different, and have different paths to follow.  please remember love is the key to happiness, and this is what Doreen has preached through it all.  without her insights, and the fact i see so much of myself in her journey, is more verification of truth for my own personal path.  i have also seen angels. in fact i have flown with them.  what more verification of love can there be than that?  please remember... Doreen has changed the lives of millions of people the world over.  (i live in New Zealand).  and i would hazzard a guess many who do not decide to continue with her teachings are simply not ready to accept.  it can be a very scary step to take!  but listen to your inner wisdom.  what feels right... is right...

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." -2nd Corinthians 11:13-15

I'm sorry, but nearly 10,000 hits and only a 2.9 rating on this story is unholy! I JUST found this and learned about something new. Interesting!

JM

Very fair comments from Savattra.... You have to be very careful of people who claim to work miracles.

When I wrote this op-ed I never expected the degree of its readership and reaction. I remain in my initial position and intention of stating that dabbling without discretion in the spiritual realm can have negative consequences. I hope this article can foster enough debate to reveal the truth about Ms. Virtue and her work. I hope I am wrong and she is the real deal. Not just for her sake but everyone else. I saw a movie called "The Craft" a few days ago. One of the characters got so into witchcraft that she went crazy after calling on some powerful spirits. There is some real life examples of what was portrayed on the film. This is what my hope is to never happen to anyone. Its not worth it and is an awful experience.

How valid would it be for a Buddhist of a Jew to make commentaries on christianity? Books or articles of that nature would not sell very well because the number of people open to such thoughts are very few in number. This is exactly what is occurring when a religious person makes judgements on someone in the business of spirit communication.

How much validity does your dentist have when making comments on an auto mechainic's ability? None. Spirit frequently has nothing to do with religion. more often than not all forms of religion are more properly classified under politics and bigotry. Any religion that either allows or promotes warefare of any kind is just bad politcs it has nothing to do with spirit. How do you reconcile a god noted for compassion who has so many warlike followers? It should be a very large clue that something is very wrong.

Both protestantism and the catholics converge on one man, Paul or Saul the tax collector. It is a known fact that the man never met Jesus and was an enemy of Jesus for the intrests of the state at the time. Everything is based on his vision on the road. Often people have such visions and good is produced of them. But they are limited to the understanding of the person at the time, therfore imperfect. Many had more spiritual training than Paul and would have gotten much more out of the same vision.

Jesus had an older brother on his father's side of the family,.a step-bother. In Jesus' abscence he led the church until a political battle ensued between them and Paul won out. Actually Paul's followers did most of the evil over the issue of accepting Jews into Christianity. Paul wanted nothing to do with them. As Christianity spread through the world, it changed the message slightly so that within the lifetime of one man it went to war with itself.

Later Constatine is portrayed as a converted christian, he gave lip service only to the religion to promote the power of the state (his power) over the people through a corrupted religion which set himself up as Jesus in all ways except in name. He and others following him, tore out whole sections of the papers that became the Bible, rewrote other sections at will, and accidently mixed them with bogus papers that were written by the Apostles themselves to throw the Romans into confusion. The most obscure sections of the Bible are the least corrupt, the plainer the text the more corrupt it tends to be.

The papers that became the Bible were never meant for the common person. They were meant for a select group of people of a higher than normal spiritual intelligence. Those people became monks and mystics. If those papers were meant for the common man and had some magical enchantment to survive 4 major language traslations over 2,000 years to be understood today, then there's a problem.

Have you ever heard of "half" an enchantment?
In any story of enchantment, whatever has been enchanted has a "full" enchantment. Whatever the object is, it's ability to affect reality is complete, it does the job.
If the bible were meant to survive time and translation it would have been incorruptable, the pages would be understood by everyone regardless of who is reading them. You should be able to read a 2,000 year old Aramaic Bible today and the pages should be like new. That is not the case, bibles rot like any other book, they were created by men to serve the people living at the time. Is God somwhow less capable than a nature spirit, and only capable of "half" an enchantment?

There is no need for Holy Books, we have something that is superior within every person. Intuition is the word of God. Most women are closer to god than anyone else. However most men create religions.

The assertion that god and angles are above men is a direct contradiction of what spirit says about itself presently. You rely on the infection of some very bigoted men that are long dead. You are worshipping the state's politics of war, thinly veiled under the label of spirit.

Any person who points back to God and his/her angels is doing something right initially. The details about the person's past or the projections from an infantile medical technology are unworthy of attention.

P.S., If indeed the religion is as corrupt as I imply, then those "fallen angels" may well be the real item, and the good angels you follow may be playing for the other team.
Yet you are told not to rely on your own perceptions, but the state's book instead. There is a reason the Anti-Christ was never named, it was the church itself.
The bottle is trying to pass itself off as the Genii.

Only angels will impart love to us...and Doreen Virtue has taught us how to love. Her teaching has benefited me greatly as I now know how to love others. I think only people who like to attack others on a personal level have demon in their heart, regardless of what belief system about God and angels one has. Jesus Christ had also attempted to impart love to people of his era but did the Jews believed him??? No, they didn't and he was cruelly killed in the end. That is why now people believe him in order to wash away the sins of their ancestors. How come when Jesus was well alive, no one honoured his teachings, except for the few who believed??? Isn't it too late to honour his teachings when one can only rely on the teachings that have passed down by those church pastors and not by Jesus Christ himself. Who knows whether the teachings had been greatly altered by those pastors or not??? Even if one is a pastor, you cannot guarantee that he has a pure angelic heart.

Who are you creepy people?  Where do you come from?  What the F are you talking about?

Why is it that the weirdest shit on this site is always in SF? 

Boy lot's written on Doreen Virtue, I'm a ATP/Medium through her courses. I don't know if anyone else knows about this article from Angel Therapy. I have read most of her books, I was developing in psychic abilities before I knew of her. Many have written on here with concerns about connecting with evil spirits. That somehow when you talk to Angels they will deceive you into thinking that they are good.

Well in her books I believe it was "Messages from your Angels", she goes over what it feels like to connect with angelic energy versus something negative. She gives examples of a angelic communication versus negative entity. I believe I was led to her, because I had connected with negative entities without knowing.  I did not ask for them to come into my life, but they found me anyway. They are all over the place.

I needed to connect with these positive people to help me. I believe to this day they still do, I mean the Angels. I received my certificate back in 2003 for ATP, and 2004 for Mediumship. I had already developed on my own. But I needed to connect with more positive and protective energies.

I wasn't always like this, I was a normal person, with normal communication skills. I do not know exactly why this developed in me. It has been difficult at times, but now it's more second nature to me. So I understand people's scepticism. This is not for everyone, to hear the voices of spirits and Angels. So no matter what I say, you will not believe in it, nor will you believe me that I say you can talk to positive spirits and Angels.

Her books are very positive. She wants other women to succeed like her. That's why she has a certification program for us to go out and teach, write, lecture, do readings, artist, healers, reiki master, masseuses, singers, musicians, etc. whatever is in our hearts as lightworkers.

One thing I think that most people have qualms about is the cost of the seminars, yes there around $1500 that a weeks worth of seminar. Yoga in the morning, the class ran throughout the day, breakfast and lunch, fed very well indeed. Often something special in the evening like dancing, spiritual type film. It's alot for people to handle this growth in a short period of time. Many share stories of things that will happen to them at the seminar, it is a definate time of growth. People make friendships and connect to like-minded people there. They stay connected on her message board on her site, and through Belief.net bookclub.

I believe Doreen's main message is one of love from your Angels, that they are with you, that you pray for their assistance when you need them. She never takes credit for her gift, she always says, I just hear the Angels well. You can hear her live every Wednesday on www.Hayhouse.com radio she does live readings on there, and her husband Steven comes on afterwards(check the schedule for right times) Maybe that would help you know more about how she is. She asks that others send support to the person she is reading for, it is a time of positive and loving energy.

All I can say, she is not for everyone. If she was, then she would be the only opinion out there. We all connect with different teachers, I consider her a mentor. That all women can succeed in their gifts with whatever that path takes us. For me I started doing readings online, trying to get more exposure for my gifts. I also do readings from people who find me through her site. I am also an artist, and dabble in writing.

We all have our right to form our own opinions, that's what' wonderful about the internet and living in the U.S. All I can say is when in doubt pray, and watch for signs of things happening in your life. I did, and I am glad I found this connection, I was in alot of danger from not only the dead but the living. It took awhile for it to clean up, and I still am careful who I associate with. I always ask for protection, and to be guided with specific issues in my life. For me it has worked, not perfectly, because the Angels cannot live my life for me. But I know they help me every moment of the day, with little things that I ask.

I just wanted to write my experience and opinion, about my connection to Doreen Virtue.

Isn't part of the problem here the issue of what Doreen means by an Angel or an Ascended Master etc. Yes there are only seven Archangels in the Bible but according to Jewish, Persian, Islamic and Christian Angelogoy there are whole hosts of celestial hierarchies. The profoundly influentual and visionary Syriac Christian Mystic known as the Pseudo-Dionysus described nine celestial hierarchies which you will see embodied on Cathedrals all across Europe (eg Chartres, Notre Dame etc). In contrast, the Valentinian Christians of the early centuries AD believed that each of us had an eternal self in the Pleroma (the Fullness) which was our Divine Self, of which our earthly bodies were a part. For them, the Salvation of Christ involved our own reconnecting with this Divine Self in the Bridal Chamber, just as Christ does with the Holy Spirit at the River Jordan (Christ, as the Son of God, reconnects with his Father). The Valentinians called this Divine Self the Guardian Angel, and in fact this was where the concept originally came from.

The Ascended Masters, however, are different to Angels in that they are Ancestors or great Men and Women who have attained a state of such spiritual perfection that they have become Angelic Beings while Angels are created directly by God. There is a precedent for this in all religions - the Devas (Shining Ones) of Hinduism spoken of in the Bagavad Gita, the Saints of Christianity, Enoch/Metatron and Elijah in the Old Testament (two humans who entered heaven without dying), Idris and Al-Khidr in Islam, various Buddhas in Buddhism (especially Tibetan Buddhism) etc etc. Interestingly, the term Sons of Man/God which are used in the New Testament are used in the Old Testament to describe Angels (cf Book of Daniel), and in Luke Christ talks of those who have truly been transformed by him as 'like unto the Angels'. So you could argue that our Angelic potential is exactly what Christ was teaching us...

Doreen Virtue's catalogue of Ascended Masters begins with Madam Blavatsky who was the first to speak of them. One of the Ascended Masters, Koot Hoomi, was a Tibetan monk who, when he was alive in the 19th C came to London in the 1850s and wrote a book about the whole subject. Doreen Virtue is working in a tradition which goes all the way back to then. Now, whether she is really in touch with something, whether she is a charlatan or not etc is up to each and every one us to decide, but it is worth remembering that the Catholic Church itself has, in the past demanded enormous amounts of money from its followers, so it may be wise to think of glass houses before we throw stones too readily!

Nonetheless you are right in saying that, in the Western Traditions, Angels are pretty terrifying beings, even though they are on our side (cf Isaiah's encounter, Chapter 6 or the Angel of the Annunciation in Matthew and Luke who appears before Joseph and Mary). In Kabbalah, it is Metatron who is especially sympathetic towards humanity, the others being charged with policing the Seven Heavens and protecting them from the wrong approaches from humanity. For me, a lot of New Age angelology is extremely wishy washy and sentimental, but is it any different to offering up prayers to the Virgin or anyone else to help us out?

The issue of what is true spirituality or not is something else. But maybe we need to ask why many people are going elsewhere for spirituality than the main organised religions. The message of Christianity, Judaism and Islam has changed over the centuries. What is it that has driven people away from the Church, Mosque and Synagogue? Many of these religions have blood on their hands historically, many speak against women or emphasise hell, damnation and punishment rather than heaven, love and compassion. Human beings seek what helps them to grow. Maybe the success of the Doreen Virtues stems from something that is lacking in our religions??? Is that worth thinking about?

I'm all for the separation of church and hate. When I see one using religion to create something damaging, like this slanderous article, I have to wonder to what God one prays.  Doreen is working through kindness.  What type of behavior is this "article" working thorugh?  Whether this type of aggression is directed in a community, a workplace, or online....we have to stop and think. Are we representing the God we say we are promoting?  We speak well of ourselves when we speak well of others. This article is very damaging to the character of the author.

EL G...If you feel that way, why would you ever read the article and all the comments then finally make a very ridiculous comment.  Why bother.  Just go on to the next.  It must have interested you to take the time. 

Crystal Gal, if you ever get back to this..........I love that penny verse.  I will always remember it...:)

And yes, I love my Angels too.  I know it seems silly but if something is wrong and I yell for them......the something that is wrong always works out.  Hope all is well with you.

And Savattra hope you are well too. Try calling an Angel when something is wrong.  See what happens.

Much Luv to all my friends on earth........

Angel1111

i recently came across two of your articles; one concerning new age practicioner sonia choquette and the latter involving counselor and medium, doreen virtue. it saddens me to hear that those closest to you were "manipulated" by these women, both of whom i greatly admire.

i've taken the time to peruse several books by both authors, and i found their advice to be uplifting, challenging, and  revolutionary. i truly believe that their words have healing power.

at the same time, i don't agree totally with all of their viewpoints, and why would i? god has given me the gift of discernement and divine intelligence; these attributes are present in all of us.

 i'm not here to berate or villify you, but I certainly hope that you will spend your time spreading love instead of animosity. you seem very angry, and i believe that the discomfort you feel existed long before sonia choquette entered the new age scene. maybe now is the time to confront the pain that lives within your heart. i suspect that sonia illicits such a volatile response because she has reached the level of notoriety that you secretly hope for.

as a fellow intuitive, i urge you to take the focus away from the likes of sonia and doreen, and onto yourself. true power empowers; it does not judge, belittle, or demonize anyone. remember, we are all god's creation.

Sonia Choquette gave me a reading that she gave to 5 of my friends. This is not about jealousy as your adolescent rationale implies. Rather I was ripped off as were my friends and that is a legitimate cause of negative reaction.

Doreen Virtue earned thousands of dollars from a vulnerable person who took all her trainings with the promise that she too would reach the enlightenment and bank account of the "metaphysician". The woman needed psychiatric care because the thoughts put in her mind caused her to doubt reality and avoid dealing with the real problems. Another reason why there is a negative reaction to her work as well. Wolves in sheeps clothing should be exposed.

religiosity exists, irrespective of one's chosen faith. every religion has people that entertain delusions of grandeur. mental illness is a very real condition, and sometimes, religious zeal can be used to mask it. many things are done in the name of our creator-doesn't make them right. at the same time, we must learn to forgive because it's impossible to travel with excess baggage.

okay, this is in response to savattra's article(s) written about the hay house crew :0) i was thinking about the fees that sonia and doreen charge for private readings, group work, etc-when it dawned on me, it's all about your perception, if you think that $5000 is far too expensive a price for any product, then it is, but the opposite is also true. a few years ago i began working in retail (no longer on that train tyvm), and managers always stressed the danger in selling from your own pocket; basically re-terating what i said about perception. what's overpriced to one person may be relatively inexspensive for the next. thus, we run the risk of missing out on an opportunity because all we see is scarcity-and this isn't a dig at you savattra. i'm actually glad that you took the time to write your articles-because it forces people to look at the way they shape reality.

best

nicole

Just to clear some things up - I am not against women healers and true psychics. If you notice I recommend Laura Day, Dr. Mona Lisa Schultz, Dr. Judith Orloff, Penney Peirce, and Marcia Emery. In the world of psychics and healers be as discerning as you would when selecting a mechanic.

To savattra, the "supposed author" of this trash you have written about a very honorable and gifted lady and healer whom is Doreen Virtue,

Great people talk about Ideas, Average people talk about things, and SMALL people talk about other people.

I guess everyone falls into a different lot of life- it's completely clear where you lie.  There are plenty of people who know exactly what Doreen Virtue speaks of and represents.  There are people that are on her level, and above it.  Many know the names of the ones she speaks of, for they work with them also.  It's funny how the enlightened ones get the grand pleasures of working with such sleeping and non-aware individuals at times- and sometimes, just flat out immature idiots, as your self.  It's quite typical for a lowly evolved soul to mock things they do not understand, verses try to raise themselves to acquire the knowledge.  Thank God for Ascension.  Hopefully you will lift your self out of your limited (as that of a mosquito),  box of hell and step into the Light- immediately. There is no need to be jealous, just start doing your own homework- you'll get there...eventually?...  

In the world of psyhic phenomenon not all things are the same. Like I have stated before its like going to a care mechanic ... some are excellent with a fair price and others are rip off artists.  People go to these healers when they are vulnerable. The sad part is that being vulnerable can quickly lead to exploitation. This is what I am getting at. I don't expect people to agree with me. I only have seen more damage done to those who have turned to certain healers in the public eye. It is sad and could have been avoided. As for allegations of jealousy .... if I were truly jealous why am I promoting those who are also Hay House authors who are also healers?  I would be criticizing them as well if I was.

Dear Savattra,

You are so right, The Guru's will be exposed.

The following is an e-mail I recieved

The Greed in Today's Spiritual Teachers


As I hope you have noticed by now, it's rare indeed to hear me spend time on such worldly issues as politics, the economy, and monetary gain. Nevertheless, after much deliberation, I feel compelled to share my thoughts about something, namely the huge emphasis within "popular" New Age thought over the last year or two on people learning to "get more of what they want" from life-particularly when it comes to money and material possessions.
 
I can't help but notice that Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, and numerous other masters forgot to tell us this newly discovered "prerequisite for enlightenment." How is it that the ancient masters failed to tell us what so many New Thought teachers and authors are now commonly addressing? These modern teachers tell us to use the creative power within our minds to get more "stuff." Instead, the masters of old taught that we should practice getting rid of our "stuff." This should make us wonder if the teachers of old were missing something or if today's teachers have perhaps fallen prey to the lord of this world-greed. Of course their greed is disguised as "creating your reality."  But, who do you think is giving them the finances for the material possessions they are "creating"? It's you, the spiritual student! Don't get me wrong, I agree that we should all be abundant, but why do spiritual teachers (or anyone, for that matter) need several cars, houses, and boats, while failing to be equally okay giving such possessions to others in need.
 
Once the movie The Secret (which was great) made it so big, too many teachers and authors jumped on the bandwagon writing books, making more movies, and creating seminars, in effect telling people how important it is to get more from life. Sadly, it's rare for any of these same teachers and authors to allow those who have little or no money to attend for free-mainly because such folks who have no money can't help to supply these teachers with another boat payment. I recently saw an interview with one of these teachers/authors. Asked how he was doing, he replied by stating that he had just paid cash for a new house, as though this is the measure of one's state of being. Instead, imagine answering such a question as "How are you doing?" by the measure of how much you are able to give to others.
 
Also, I recently heard from the coordinator of a popular spiritual conference that she was having difficulty getting speakers to attend her next event because most have followed the trend of asking for $15,000-$25,000 per hour for their time, which they usually want to have paid in advance. This seems absurd to me! While teaching and speaking at conferences for over 25 years, I have met all of the well-known teachers and authors (many of whom are friends and colleagues) and have not found one that has wisdom worth $25,000 dollars per hour. In fact, I personally find that many of my students have more sincerity and as much wisdom as the most popular of these teachers and authors.
 
It seems acceptable even for  students of spirituality to  complain about the profits the government makes on our taxes or the oil tycoons make on fuel or large corporations give to pad the lives of their CEO's, but nobody bothers to notice the greed of modern spiritual teachers. Buddha laughed at the likes of these individuals; Jesus rebuked them and referred to them as blind guides and hypocrites. Furthermore, neither Buddha nor Jesus ever charged a dime for their teachings, which by the way, far surpass the teachings of any of today's authors.
 
Now, you might ask, "Well Michael, don't you also charge for your services?" The answer is of course, "yes." But, in over 25 years of teaching we (my staff and I) have NEVER turned away a student who couldn't afford our workshops or sessions-that is, as long as that student or client was sincere about learning or healing. Yes, we do ask for occasional donations to assist with printing and or the numerous expenses for our retreats, but we share even these donations with others in need. At our recent mastery intensive, our attendees were surprised to see that such a large portion of their fee was spent on workshop supplies, guest facilitators, and on beautifying the property for their further enjoyment. In other words, we directly gave back to those who gave to us. We see this as a win-win scenario, rather than being one person benefiting from what they take from others.
 
All this said, I encourage everyone to speak up on the matter in question. Please send a copy of this letter and/or your own thoughts to everyone involved-including the most well known spiritual teachers-and remind them to get their priorities straight and to put love and service before self and profit. Take a moment to remind them what they may seem to have forgotten: "The world is for-giving and not for-getting."

Love and Light, Michael Mirdad

From Driver

it seems to me that there are a few people on this site who are a little disgruntled by the questioning of doreen's virtues, perhaps it could be suggested that some of her students and followers will not attain the spiritual wisdom peace and harmony they seek by getting spitty and picking up their clubs and walloping anyone who dares to critisise their teacher and guru.  no one can gain enlightenment through anger and know one can know god without enlightenment, sure there are false teachers in this world but we have free will to choose for ourselves who they are.

there is a positive and negative in everything  i don't see any reason why this would not apply to the angelic realm and everyone would do well to remember that lucifer was the angel of light he and a third of the angels fell from gods grace. oh how  they would love to get their grubby hands on people who are too lazy to do their homework or read a book, look at research or history which is rich with the activity of angels batting in both teams.i have no objection to other people's choices to work with angels undoubtedly gods sends his holy angels to do all kinds of bit's and bobs, indeed Raphael the healer is one of the few angels that is mentioned by name in the bible. it also says in psalms that there are ten thousand times ten thousand angels and I'm pretty sure that god would at some point given them all a name. the bible also describes (in both the old and the new testament) angels that have four wings and four faces a human face a lion, an ox and an eagle, i am interesed to know if anyone including Dr virtue has encountered any of these angels.

you know people there is nothing wrong with Jesus he's quite a good egg, and the one who many would run to immediately they found they were in trouble with the wrong kind of angel. My only criticism of Dr virtue is that she does not explore the subject of fallen angels how to protect yourself from them if you should attract their attention   there is no mention of them at all in any of her work i have read. my only criticismof the author is that fallen angels are not demons god did not deny the fallen lot their angel form or authority when they fell from grace it is explained clearly and simply by a bloke called Terry Law and i think you will find his qualifications and history most acceptable. i will end my rant by saying i personally try to remember the words of Dr Martin Luther King, of Mother Teresa of Gandhi  of any that have gone before me whose words can not fail to warm the coldest of hearts no matter what your religious tastes and convictions may be, i take in the wisdom and the advocacy of peace in their words and that rather than getting spitty with the people i disagree with helps and aids my spiritual growth. and help me feel closer to god

well i have spent time reading all this over, its a shame really that u feel this way dear author.  If you have personally spent anytime with Dr. Virtue or her husband Dr. Farmer then maybe you would see things in a different light.  I have met both of them personally, and recieved readings and spiritual guidance from them both,  and spent time with each of them personally, and i feel i am qualified to say that they are both loving and giving individuals who care for people and our planet. 

What difference does it make how many time someone has been married? this makes no sense to me whatsoever!  and just for the record, Dr. Virtue has been married 3 times, not 4, maybe check your facts??!? and she has been more than open as to why her previous marriages didnt work out, so why fault the woman...you think maybe the man could be a fault? mmmm

Part of being spiritual is not to judge others, and I could say that being Catholic or being a lawyer could also have several drawbacks.....lets see is the Catholic church with out any fault about anything? mmmm i think not...not to mention how many smarmy lawyers are out there...but hey...why generalize when we can just point a finger and say your this or that like you have done in your article...

Sad really, maybe if you contacted them personally, got your facts straight and got to know Drs Virtue and Farmer you would see they are not what you have portrayed them to be, but i guess its easier to make things up then get your story right and accuse people for wrong doings when you have never even met them in person.

Yes there are good and bad in all things, and im sure that everyone has skeletons in their closet, but who are we to judge others? the last poster mentioned Gandi, and mother teresa....well check into them, Gandi was a racist and mother teresa took millions of dollars from people to use for her nunnerys instead of giving money to the poor like she said she was doing, but yet they are both still touted as saints...so lets call a spade a spade shall we, no one is without fault, but its up to all of us a spiritual beings not to pass judgment, get facts wrong and accuse folks of things with out the proper back up.....by the way if u want to look up Ghandi u will find he was predjidced against africans its easy to google that info and also about mother teresa...google away that info is out there, but then again i check my facts before i make sweeping statements about others.

Debate is good, and i dont expect everyone on the planet to think the same we would all be robots then, but lets not pass judement on those of us that do follow this way of life and know doreen virtue for the kind soul she is.  Angels are no denominational, and as one of the posters said, she doesnt cover "fallen angels", well some of us dont belive in "fallen angels" "satan" or the like, wiccans for example have been blamed for years for worshiping satan, and the big joke is they dont even believe he exists so how can they worship him? its the same with fallen angels, why does she have to cover that in her teachings if she doesnt want to, im sure if someone asked her about them she would lovingly give her view on it, but again why point a finger to someone when all the good she has done in her life could certianly out weigh the negatives that all of us, and i mean each and everyone of us, have done in our lives...  none of us are saints are we?

i hope you dont judge everyone like this, it will make for a sad life really.

Qoute [well i have spent time reading all this over, its a shame really that u feel this way dear author.  If you have personally spent anytime with Dr. Virtue or her husband Dr. Farmer then maybe you would see things in a different light.  I have met both of them personally, and recieved readings and spiritual guidance from them both,  and spent time with each of them personally, and i feel i am qualified to say that they are both loving and giving individuals who care for people and our planet. ]

REALLY,REALLY.

Yes I AM  professionally  trained with Doreen, spent a fortune, Then I was her staff, at an Angel workshop,

SO I.VE BEEN THERE

YOUR QOUTE IS

[Sad really, maybe if you contacted them personally, got your facts straight and got to know Drs Virtue and Farmer you would see they are not what you have portrayed them to be, but i guess its easier to make things up then get your story right and accuse people for wrong doings when you have never even met them in person.]

SAD FACT , its only money NOW  major money all the way,

I started out like you, bright eyed and bushy tailed.

But now I know the facts,

Now I rely on my gift of mediumship which brought me to this place anyway, I should never have doubted my gift, and I NEVER WILL.

lOVE driver.

You know it is sad Savattra that you don't have your facts straight. So what if Doreen got married more than once. Remember, every failure or difficulty in life is a lesson in life and we all grow from our weaknesses. In your bio stating that you "love life" is entirely fraud because you are destructive. This article about Doreen and other articles to attack other gifted people are libels and slanders. Hmmm, libel and slander...is this how you love life? How can you even criticize about people's marital issues when you are single. You don't know a damn thing about marriage until you are in it. Yes, I am married. You know I can understand why God did not give you the gift of discernment because you don't deserve it. God gives gifts to people who He knows will be peacemakers, strengthen their spirituality, and be better and positive people. If you haven't met Doreen or the others and attended any of their workshops, I suggest you keep your damn opinions to yourself. I think that you need to ask the Holy Spirit to help you open your heart not your mouth so that you will be given wisdom and the gift of knowing all so that you can get your facts straight.

Thanks Hazel,

YOUR QOUTE,

thats me,I was born with my gift, but said who me until I met doreen, paid my money, lots , got my cert. to get a paper that said i had a gift, I paid 1,444. and more another 500 for my stay

[God gives gifts to people who He knows will be peacemakers, strengthen their spirituality, and be better and positive people.]

If you haven't met Doreen or the others and attended any of their workshops,]

Yes I've been trained by doreen and yes I KNOW.The facts.

 I suggest you keep your damn opinions to yourself. I think that you need to ask the Holy Spirit to help you open your heart not your mouth so that you will be given wisdom and the gift of knowing all so that you can get your facts straight.]

Holy spirit is asking you to look at truth, you have a major problem here, why, truth is pure and costs nothing,

Love Driver

Hi Driver,

When you made the choice on being trained with Doreen, it was at your own discretion. There are people in church which you might know on how to manage your gift. The church is the best place to ask for spiritual guidance because the priests, rabbi, etc...have deeper knowledge about things that civilian people do not know. Yes, the truth is free and pure. Ask the Holy Spirit to send the message to you (people who need it) and in time it will be revealed to you in a dream. I asked the Holy Spirit to have the ability to see angels. I pray to my angels. I prayed previously to be able to see angels and I did. Although it took me years of asking but persistence paid off. I prayed to be able to receive messages from angels and I did. I prayed to the angels to let me feel their presence and I did. And now, connecting with angels is much easier for me. But, one thing I did not do is spend $$$$ to connect with angels...not even a penny. Just a reminder in the bible, Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive." If we have learned anything about this entire discussion is to increase our faith. If Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive" then why can't we ask Him directly for anything we want rather than going through the middleman and spend money to connect with our angels, Jesus, God, etc....I realize that when your faith increases and your heart is pure, you can connect and receive divine messages. It takes time to do this but if you are persistent you will receive what you asked for. I did.

Good Day Savattra,

You must still be in awe of so many people sending replies to your article, people have given into your negative energetic shots at Doreen. People get hooked on media all the time.  Like, all the Talibans that use Media to condemn the USA and its citizens. 

This must make you feel powerful, like in a courtroom when a lawyer knows how to get under people skin and push the proper buttons. Its all about the game. Using the right words to make a person feel like they are under your scrutiny and judgements, What a power trip!! That is how the ego works, it feels your soul with whatever it needs to feel good and poweful about itself. 

However, we in the Spiritual Community, Angels readers/healers, psychics, Shamans and Shamanwomen, know that every human being in this world are at different levels in their soul evolution.  I could safely say that we don't really pray to dogma, the religions of the world has used the devil to control the masses, this is a part of the piscean age.  Look up the ages of our human evolution, the bronze age, the dark age, and we have evolved.  The devil was man made, put into our minds that if we don't follow the religion, we will be put into fire. Think about it, doesn't that sound stupid, what would be the point be of coming to this planet.  You can`t honestly believe, or make the people believe today, that is the condemnation of God, if God is love, then why would he put his children there. 

And as for putting down Stephen Farmer, being a plastic Shaman.  Once the soul as evolved, a soul can see past the illusion of what you see.  Do you think you are a soul, and what about the trees, the grass, the water. They have a life force just like you. What would happen if you were to die today, who do think would be guiding you to God, An Angel. Doreen doesn`t boss them around and tell them to manifest all this stuff for us, once you receive divine guidance.  The money part is an energetic exchange. What do lawyers charge for their services, what about the judicial system.  How much money is being thrown and strewn about in a negative way, and how many people in the system are just pawns in a game where money is used to get the lawyers to help them. People have to pay thousands of dollars for a system that is so unjust, and what does that do for them.  Look at OJ Simpson and how he used money to buy him out of murder charges, and how the lawyers used the  system to their advantage by `keeping everything legal`, and knowing how the use the law for their advantages, knowing they are unjust.  Explain that to me, divine order has a way of justice being served no matter what, or who, you still have to pay in the end.  What is your worth, putting others down, have you asked the people that she has helped, have you ever been to her workshops, or any other for that matter. If you have really done your research and left yourself to be OPEN, I can honestly say that, you probably would not have written this article.

I believe you have Angels, guarding you. Have you done research into Mellen Thomas-Benedict, do that and see what happened to him, he was as skeptical as you. 

This article is dumb. Clearly this person Sa-whatever your name is, has no idea that angels are there to help you with anything you ask. God can be a "boy who does errands" After all, he is everything! Please don't attack Doreen like this. Get a life. About the "hard earn money" People spend it in worse things, but then expexcting doreen's help with your spiritual growth for FREE? Come on! Get real...

Two of the angels Doreen does mention in one of her books are actually "fallen" angels. That I found in either Jewish writing or islamic writing (I don't remember which) but they are Azazel and Metatron. This comment is straight doo-doo!

Well, I finally read all the comment! I thank, I Love Angels for making several points about a lot of things. I bet all these comments do give Savattra some kind of feeling of  "power". I bet that every since Savattra had wrote this article & got more well known; that she started charging more money to represent her clients in court.

I

What I wonder is, what qualifies Doreen to be a "professional" spiritual teacher? Then from there what qualifies her to be a "professional" trainer of other "professional" spiritual teachers? Last I checked we already had "professional" spiritual teachers, with a rigourous training program. Its usually called "seminary" when I hear about it, and it usually cranks out priests and pastors. These priests and pastors molest young kids, engage in extramarital affairs, marry people who will be divorced a year or two later so that he can afford a new PT Cruiser, and continuously talk about people needing to give to the church, or assassinate presidents of Venezuela. Granted not all of these "professional spiritual teachers" do these things but enough that it becomes pretty obvious that "professional" spiritual teachers aren't very professional, and have a weird definition of spiritual teaching. I wonder if Yeshua went through a "professional" spiritual teacher course before giving the Sermon on the Mount. From the way our current "spiritual teachers" act, he must have. Must have had his Phds in Theology and Pastoral Studies prominently displayed so people could know he speaks with authority when he says "Blessed are the meek..." By the same token, he must have had a limo take him into the desert for 40 days, where he sat in a 5 star hotel resisting the temptations of Satan. And when it became time to go to Golgotha, he charged $2111 for people to watch, and was flown in on a first class plane ticket. The plane landed nearby and Pontius Pilate himself rolled out the red carpet. It's true some people do need a "guru" until they are ready to lead themselves. A "true" guru would tell them when it is time to make their own way. A "false prophet" will constantly want their student licking heels. Doreen is a New Age Pharisee.

opps, sorry I didn't get to finish what I was about to say!

Anyway, Ever since I was 3yrs. old I started to having premonitions, visions, seeing spirit, etc... I have always been very intuitive. Even though I had experienced all those things, I was confused about life, the after life, & my faith in God. I wasn't raised in a church & had little knowledge about the bible. Whenever I tried to read it on my own, it was too hard for me to understand. Also, I was the kind of person that had to see things before I believe it. Well...when I was 23 yrs. old, I had a out of body experience & seen an angel w/a bright white light behind her. Seeing that angel, made me more spiritual & a believer in God real quick! Still, I have more questions than answers. I don't believe anyone here on earth has all the answers that I'm looking for. However, I keep an open mind & since then I've gain so much more insight. I can relate to Doreen Virtue because I know that angels do exsist. Her writings have given me a positive outlook. I can have a bad day but turn it around into having a positive meaning. Now, I've learned & feel that "Believing is Seeing". We all have different opinions & beliefs. Savattra speaking out w/her opinions about Doreen Virtue, may have gave some positive insight to some people. In my opinion, I think Savattra is good for a debate & politics. Even though I wouldn't vote for her in an election to become a judge! We all have the right to our own opinions. All that really matters is what we believe in as individual! Take Care Everyone! & P.L.U.R. (Peace, Love, Unity, Respect)

I am pretty pleased to have seen your article and newspaper right now - on Thursday last week a number of doreen virtue videos came into my utube account as 'recommended viewing' - actually they were made of a still shot of her and were radio interviews. Very softly, softly ones I must say. I am a trained and long term journalist here in NZ. I am also a PR consultant - I have had two of doreen's packs of cards for awhile. They were lovely @ the time like having an ice cream on a hot day they were a real real quick fix for a long term situation. Obviously. And prolly anyone with two eyes and ears must acknowledge this - she really has no authority much whatsover to be creating and manufacturing these things. However she does, (she has a big market) and I have used them. After a while though - as with my Goddess oracle cards and some older egyptian ones - I realised they are ALL crap, they are all mass marketing. There is no spiritual entitiy running behind or steering these cards @ all - ever!). I personally, after listening to her radio talkshows on thursday couldn't sleep I was in such a rage - I am what you may call an evolved christian lol - been once since I was 10 - I am nearing 40 - I am also single ( by choice) and am writing novels and do PR from home I live @ the beach. I am also an intuitive I have had many dreams and visions etc before they have happened both locally and globally. I have never tried to 'sell' my experienecs. NOW this lady ms. doreen on these current talkshows - clashed her ideologies and theories within minutes - she is a 'christian' - yet she believes in re-incarnation? where in the bible does indigo, crystal and rainbow kids fit in? hows' archangel micheal going? Utterly surprised as ANY would be that he's hanging around california in carparks et al @ TIMES LIKE THESE. Then I went to Google and wiki her today - as I have emailed her asking for an interview for an article (as a freelance journalist I have a right to do something for Australia and NZ) - right and I spot wiki has taken her off - do to pending issues - this normally means her 'people' are seeking legal advice about what wiki is saying - they are generally a maverick but sometimes quite good resource ie wiki. So I scroll down some more and read joe averages comments that she is 'losing credibillty' all the time, her cards are getting more and more plasticinised. Type thing. Now i am well well versed in the bible since I was 10 - I know a hang of a lot about the invisble realm and I have post graduate in a very stable and fine university here in journalism - all I want to do now is a newspaper feaure article for auckland, sydney and melbourne - I like your profile - I resonant to a lot of what you are saying since young iI Have had a distrust for this NEW AGE thing. Even locals get stoned and boast a New Golden Age is coming for 1,000 years (an oxymoron here - all get to enjoy this golden age) - wot? when? for whom? I have never seen such a mass-wash lot of DECEPTION as the new age movement and is quaky whackery pracitioners - who are the loosest set of mental units I have actually had to endure. Everything tastes like candy for a while - what happens when you eat candy all day every day - you be sick! they are making me sick and I see their doctrine - as splintered and indiviualised (pret-a-porter religion) as it is - the questions I have for her are very poignant and before I came across you and your article - I worte down some poingant questions about using 'angels' and 'god' to make little cards and mass market for one's own pocket - I could question her about the ancient prophets, saints et al - who mainly lived a life of chasity and total poverty and some depravity, even death - like Jesus himself - this little blonde beauty seems to have the entirity of god, Jesus and the arhcangel micheal shining brightly over her and they seem to be blessing and endorsing her little enterprise. When in this current economic flux - many thousands of long serving straight talking christians are losing homes, wages and looking for food. - I asked her in my pre-written questions do you ever think you may be (dare I say it) deceived - who knows she may not even respond. I see your article says she has been married four times, her PHD being as light as a 'feather' which incidentally she says on her radio shows - is a sign from the angels. I ask her real pointblank questions about things like martyrdom when its an honour to die for god and truth - she never mentions hell or heaven (has she been up there yet) - and does she have a little store too - for the hoodwinked to pop into up there* mmmmmmmm considering there's no currency up there I don't think so! She never talks about being saved - she never talks about armegeddon - its' sounding a lot like a little oprah to me* Is there no discernment or even doctrinal knowledge over there anymore? or in the world. I must admit when I bought my angel and mermaid cards I saw the phd and saw the pretty sunshiney blonde and thought yeah she looks blessed and she's qualified - mate! another thing I like about what you have said on your profle I came across Judith too recently I sent her stuff out on my mypace to my connects and I have contacted her to ask if she ever needs PR work down under - she is open to the idea - she is nice I really liked her - but honest when I heard those doreen tapes I was mad! as IF Micheal is hanging around a californian parking lot - talking to one human being when the ultimate of ultimates may be about to happen its totally ludicrious - as IF they are intersted in your happy valentines or wheth er you get that nice pink dress in the window* there's supposed to be a massive massive occurnace happen nearly - what a way to make a million or two by saying NOTHING BAD'S gonna happen these darlings (angles are here for you - and I guess they are only for the west right? not for a tahitian or a thai person). It's would have to be someone with visa or net access for payment - for sure! are you on myspace? May I ever qoute you or ask you a question or two on this subject or her - I was thinking of making the article a feature and call it New Age Debunkery for Debauchery. Not sure yet. But it was a cool surprise to find you right now maybee the REAL angels lead me to you hee* chuckle wah wah wah! Fuschia White is my penname but I am happy to give your more dets if you wish. ps if I apply for being an author do they pay? lol just asking - I am also a culture vulture and am mostly interested in musick and the arts -[ a little of esoterics but not really hunting them down like you seem to bee* which is great honestly no one else is - do you know many other women doing this - you are getting a bit of a hard time for it - I get a hard time for my strong beliefs - even if I don't open my mouth - because people say so much hogwash these days - I just don't speak and look @ them blankly - that' prolly says it all to them - haha ok message me @ fuschiamade@hotmail.com if you have time etc

Look I just for the first time, scrolled up and read only 3/4 of the comments - as I didn't know mine was going to be published but fine - basically I am the only one which talks about hell - and being saved. THAT is precisely where she is lying* and deceiving* ALSO I want to know where all these angels on each of these cards was when each of the saints or martyrs were taken, or abused - ? Playing hopscotch!

It's sometimes (unusual) and weird as it sounds more puritan to be taken through the grinder here on earth which is what the Son of God had to go through -  We don't have to as its' been done - but some of those closest to him did - its called a CALLING and if one is CHOSEN and follows that chosen path they recieve upmost good stuff up there - certainly not some pingers - as they are not required up there -  (mind you eternity versus a pittance of years down here has never equated to me).  ALL are Called but few are Chosen. I believe now reading all this - there are swarms of deceiving agents of the other side posing - as angels of light -

Light means truth too and the truth can be dark in terms of psychology - Jesus bled tears - its an honour to be taken through such dark and dire hours for a God you love and serve - this airy fairy crap is leading souls to hell - AND you are never meant to take a dollar for spirtual healing* even our maori healers have koha (a donation - only if you can)

Having this airy-fairy love is like a CO-DEPENDENT or an ILLUSIVE love - it enables for the minute  it DISABLES for the long term. You have to be saved to get into the Kingdom for eternity - the rest go to hell* Don't blame me afterwards - NO ONE wants to hear that because NO one specially in this ultra-heretical, ultra-consumerism, HUMANISTIC, society - which is heating up more and more* in the negative - NO ONE wants to pay the price on earth first - for the new KINGDOM - they want a quick fix - like a co-dependent reltaionship - knowing they are in one arm getting a shot of love (someting sustainable for a minute) and in the other with toxic -

it is pure poison spiritually to belive there is no heaven and hell - the primary purpose of an increase in ANGELS of late is to get ready for the final battle of Armegedon I suggest Doreen and her new age counterparts/colleagues - who are NEW AGE JUNKIES for 1/4 truth get REVELATIONS out nd go through it with a fine tooth comb* and if there are a billion or so christians who also believe that - and a couple of hundred - even a handful purist Virute followers - again, let's look @ the stats.

I am sad for those who are sticking up for a MONEY SPINNER in the a name of angels and God - they ain't here to do little tricks for us - that's the deception they are here to End the Earth.  Tragic that you are being fooled - those people get taken to hell for heresay and false doctrine incidentally no matter how pretty the face, hair or marketing*

People NEVER wanna talk about Jesus and Hell and getting Saved because it costs them their lives* and their stupid piddly reputation, among their cheap and wonton friends - fear of man or some crap like that, - incidentally in hell you don't get to be with friends and family as everything is so obscure and molten - so for a piddly couple of years you get to give up being with glory for all eternity how ridiculous is that - you don't need a degree for that! but you CAN do some angel cards and spend some money filling someone who's smirking her way to herprobably alread-paid mortage et al.

Again look @ the religions stats too - christianity still has the widest margain - you get all the new agers together and they splinter in seconds - they cannot for up to an hour in conversation agree on anything - @ least the fundamentals of heaven and hell and getting saved - the angels are here for war  -not to pick up our laundry - its' to get you up there that counts - forget this soft stuff* you gotta get hard or you don't get up there!

WTF? what is going on, this is so crazy, and funny, I think I do not miss the RER anymore, these people is nuts.

Savattra, or whatever your name is, you have no idea what you are talking about. Before criticising Doreen you should take her classes and read her books. Nothing of your shit makes sense. I took two of her week long classes and am still amazed by the love this woman projects. Angels do exists, like it or not, believe it or not. I communicate with them daily and my life is much easier. You are so angry and desperate for attention, get a life and please don't put such a negative and judgemental article online, shame on you!

One more thing, svattra, people who are mentally challanged wouldn't be able to attend Doreen's classes. Why? The energy in the room is so high and so pure, so loving, they wouldn't be able to fit into it. The Angels are gathering people together.... This probably sounds so complicated or fraudelent to you, ah? Actualy it's a waiste of time even writing to you. Your places is in the mud, by your own choice.

Savattra I hope youget the interview, I'll love to read another article about her, and damn she really is making some good mula cause her fans are really up there.

I just found this link http://www.broowaha.com/profile.php?id=983 where says:

"A word about Savattra:

Savattra Ravi Nam Kaur also writes under the moniker of Katherine Alexandra, the Christian. I live in Marin County, California. Single, never married, no kids, no love life!"

May be you need to wake up and get a real life, with real experiences. Call upong God and his Angels to help you with that. You probably have too much time on your hands, so you entertain yourself with articles like this, pitty... Interesting, you have a sikh name (Kaur stands at end of all people who are sikhs), but at the same time call yourself teh Christian, seems that you are lots into that... I don't think you received your spiritual name from Yogi Bhajan, the man spoke about God and Angels with great respect... Still feel sorry for you savattra, get a life!!!!!

This certainly has been an interesting read and thank you to the people who have maintained their integrity and ability to be fair. I just have a few points to share.

I think the author’s original point relating to “poor people who have been corrupted by Doreen Virtue’ is removing the responsibility from each of these people. Life is about making choices and each person needs to take responsibility for their own decisions.  These people are not children who lack any kind of personal awareness or capacity to take care of themselves. It was their choice.

I also think there is something here about realizing that an individual perception of angels or any new age ‘stuff’ can be real or metaphoric but either way you cannot deny the real healing potential there and it is up to each and every one of us to make up our own minds and protect ourselves from bad/negative thoughts. We would do this no matter what religious affiliation we chose. IF evil spirits actually exist, any person is susceptible to being corrupted by them, even people involved in the church. A person involved in angel therapy is no more  likely to encounter a negative force than through any other spiritual affiliation.

Concepts relating to: God/Jesus/Angels/Demons/Holy spirit etc are all just words and the associations that our minds put to those words are a choice and differ depending on perspective. No one person is right or wrong about this. They are all metaphoric hierarchical associations/labels that we, as humans, have made up to justify what we want to make ‘real’ but it is all only as real as we make it so no-one can be right or wrong.  Some people are going on about how evil spirits corrupted them and they had to seek priests and prayer groups to remove the evil. Well, prayer groups are the same things; it’s another opportunity for people to come together and support each other through a shared positive vision that is only as real as they make it.

In the 1100 and 1200’s in England, the monks were the only individuals who could be doctors because it was believed that the healing of the sick had to be in their hands as they were connected directly to god. Their only known “cures” for any illness or medical problem was to “bleed” the person (cutting them and allowing alot of blood to leave the body as the body was believed to be ‘contaminated’ ) and to rub animal feces in open wounds to produce puss, which was believed to be a good thing. Both of these methods we now know are incorrect but back then, people tried to provide alternative forms of healing using natural or preventative methods (such as  covering the face around people who were infected with the plague to avoid infection) but they were hanged for going against the church in this time. Haven’t we learnt from history to be more open-minded about things that are “new”, that test our current knowledge and faith?

Essentially I do see some of Savattra’s points and I would summarize it as this: USE CRITICAL THINKING and MATURE JUDGEMENT. Do your homework and use your brain. Don’t blindly follow someone because they say something is the way it is. Always protect yourself – you can give this any name in the universe but it is THE SAME function; its protection of your being, your spirit and those of your family. Any kind of positive prayer, no matter who it is directed to will give you the same result. So, ensure your thoughts are pure and positive and for the highest good. Only request beings of the highest light to enter your personal space.

I agree with so many others, the lack of evidence to support the bagging you've given Doreen Virtue for simply believing in a better version of your religion Savattra is astounding. Not to mention the obviousness of blind Christian faith being your preference throughout your entire bagging. If you're going to write an article in an attempt to disprove something you really should leave your own beliefs out of it, which I guess you would have not have much of an article in the end, as thats all you were arguing against. Of course everyone should be careful of being mislead into any sort of following that causes harm but I don't see how this one does nor your opinion that that either, therefore it only appears that you are against it because it doesn't tie in with what you believe in your Christian faith. I mean, you only seem to be arguing the whole time that its against ancient christian, and some small references to other ancient religions, belief systems, not that it is unsafe, or something to be wary of. So instead of looking at why this does not marry up with your beliefs, unless you are hardcore in believing that anyone non-Christian is going to hell and shouldn't be allowed to live, why don't you take a long look at yourself and find out why it bothers you, and how exactly it bothers you, enough to jump on a web page and bag it out preaching every Christian belief like its THE gospel for everyone. Do you think people are not allowed to have their own beliefs? What makes your belief better or more certain, not forgetting man wrote the good book. Do you think God would encourage your attitude of distaste towards your fellow neighbour for being different, and then for taking action on this? People who follow belief systems so blindly usually have suffered some trauma in their life and struggle to find a reason for it so they cling to any belief system no matter how flawed to be able to keep going. This isn't a bad thing, it keeps them going doesn't it? Whether its belief in Christianity or in the Angel Realm its theirs and theirs alone. We're not so different after all :)

Good Evening,

I fell rather strange and embarrassed to open up to writing this because first of all I have never felt the need to join an huge discussion like this - I don't generally debate and keep my opinions to myself. Secondly after writing this I will probably come across as weak minded or maybe a bit crazy for believing this but I used to take an interest in the spiritual work mainly through scepticism.

It was then that I came across Doreen Vitrues Angels book.  I'm not religious in any way but at the same am not closed minded to anyone elses beliefs and will not shun them. While I skipped over the prayers that were in the book I found that Doreen Virtue was very positive and believed that positive outlook and healthly living could help you through things which I agreed with.

I then came across a page in the book which as titled Death Age. The basic gist of it was that the angels could tell you what age you were going to die if you (something like - I threw the book away shortly after) counted to 3 and listened to the first number which came into your head. This number was the angels telling you what age you were going to die. Mine was 24. I'm 23 now and since reading the book a year ago my minor illnesses i.e. cold viruses, stomach upsets, have tormented me and caused me to worry incessantley.

All of the above is is irrational thoughts which I've dealt with now but surely some responsiblity should lie in the author - she should have really thought how her ''positive'' writings could really affect people.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I came across this site by accident and usually do not repsond to anything, but I really had to were this was concerned. 

First I have to say that I believe that Ms. Virtue does her Angel therapy for money and profit---period.  But, I also believe that what she speaks about is good for mankind.   Angels are here to help us.  To help us keep our minds on God-they never want to be worshipped-they want us to worship God, and are here to assist us.

I look at her as a person who God will judge-not I.  But, I did attend one of her worshops years ago and I could tell that she may like to talk about Angels, but the vibe I recived was that she loved money more-which is sad.  But, like a stated above-know who and what you are.  Read the bible and always ask God for guidance and use the tools that he gives us.  Ms. Virtues cards are just tools that we can use, but they are not God and what she says-she can say-but again she is not God or the bible-so people please stop letting the bad parts of what she is doing take away from the goodness of God and his Angels.  They are here to help us and they do love that we look to them like friends who look at the very face of God-but they are not GOD and nor do they ever want to be, but they do like us to listen and to learn so that we can be more open to the Lords words.

Murph--please do not listen to the dark voices in your head-God is only about love and light-and his Angels would never want you to worry-so I am glad that you threw out the book-because it is a lie.  Say your prayers and never vist that dark lying place again.

There is power in the spoken word and my words are that you have a long happy and healthy life with the love of God his Angels and many family and friends.  Peace be with you.

Is Doreen Virtue (great stage name by the way) the one who sells the ointment that cures all ailments??? It's funny how religious people get totally twisted over this stuff, no wonder wars start.  If there is a god, which I highly doubt (ex-catholic, can never quite get rid of the guilt instilled by those "good" religious folks) I think he would be quite disappointed at people making money from this stuff.....but then the good folks at the vatican have been doing it for years, just another day another million for a corrupt, controlling business. Wise up people.

I'm confused. Both sides seem to have good arguments

I would like to know alot more about this angel therapy training.  Does anyone know what hotel in Kona she is doing her training at? its scheduled for June, 2009.

Angel D

The hotel information is provided once you've signed up for the course for privacy reasons, but you can contact her group at angeltherapy.com if you would like more information regarding the course.

I've been to a DoreenVirtue seminar in the past, and while she seems to be a nice lady, her staff needs to upgrade their people skills.  Some are like schoolyard bullies who believe that because they are associated with her, that they can do no wrong.  Is Doreen Virtue's ATP Course worth it?  I don't think so.  You can find the same information elsewhere for a fraction of the cost, plus not be subjected to the viciousness of her staff.  While many ATP's are nice people with good intentions, some of them are in it out of a wish to have a holier than though attitude.  They believe they belong to an exclusive clique just like the "Mean Girls," in high school.  Any hotel information, etc., can be found earlier on this blog, posted by others.  Just hit "edit" and "search page" on your browser and search for "hotel" to find it.  Doreen Virtue's event coordinator, Angie Hatfield is an especially angry, mean individual and has no business working with the public.  She obviously has personal issues that she takes out on the public.  Anyone who is inquiring to be an ATP, by definition is someone who wants to be a good person and do God's work.  You have innocent, kind people trying to register to be ATP's only to be met by the gatekeeper from hell in the form of Angie.  It makes you wonder how insiteful/intuitive Doreen Virtue possibly could be if she is willing to have people like Angie and other people work with her who have such rotten attitudes toward people spending $700-$2000 to attend the courses.   All human beings have emotions, anger and happiness, etc.   The Angel Therapy Staff and Doreen Virtue, herself, have these same emotions.  But, you have her staffpeople who believe that because they are ATP's that their anger is a much better "grade," of anger than the common folk.  They're little mantra, "I release the part of me, that feels angry when I think of you," obviously isn't working for them.  So they walk around in their angry little worlds and believe they are better than everyone else.  Angie believes that she is superior to the people who register for the events and treats them like crap.  True spiritual people see everyone as equals and would go out of their way to assist people on their spiritual path.  I just don't see this with Angela Hatfield and some of the other Doreen Virtue assistants.  I can only conclude that Doreen Virtue, herself, doesn't care about how her staff treats people.  If she did, she would want to hear about customer complaints, herself, and extend great customer service to the public.  With Angela Hatfield as her employee, I fear that she will continue to lose customers until no one wants to buy Doreen Virtue's products or attend her events.  I truly hope that Doreen Virtue reads this post, but I doubt it, because I believe she likes to be "protected," from any "negative," but constructive criticism that might help her to continue to succeed.  Like the Inquisition and Catholic priests of the past that believed that spirituality and connection to God could only be experienced by the select few, Doreen Virtue's courses have become the same.  The Gatekeeper Angie Hatfield decides who she believes is worthy of being "saved," and being "allowed," to register for the course at the lower prices.  There are frequent one day 1/2 price and 1/4 price sales only available to a select few and for a limited time, the Gatekeeper only lets a select few register at lower prices.  If Doreen Virtue really wanted to open up God and the Angels to everyone, then she'd let anyone come to her course and at a lower price, instead of making it available to only a select few like some kind of high school clique and then encourage bullying by her staff.  Instead, she is no better than the Catholics and Born Again Christians that she is so quick to criticize for being exclusive and judgemental.

Correction:  It is actually Angie Hartfield not Hatfield who is the evil Gatekeeper/Event Coordinator for Doreen Virtue ATP courses.  She apparently has her own little gig at her website http://www.angelahartfield.com

What a joke!  Judging by the way she treats people enrolling in Doreen Virtue ATP events, I would have nothing to do with her or any of her courses.  Angela or Angie Hartfield has no qualifications to plan any events or work with the public judging by her rotten attitude.   Due to rudeness and bad attitude I would give her and Doreen Virtue a bad review or bad reviews for the ability to provide a good course or teach anyone about spirituality.  Angela Hartfield is an evil witch.   They need to clean up their own acts before they try to teach anyone else anything about becoming a better person or becoming more spiritual.   

Doreen sells little angel cards and runs around telling people she is Holy and has a direct connection to the angels.  She makes a huge profit for this. She says she can teach you how to see angels if you pay her money. People tell her "oh yes, I see them." It's like the Emperor's New Clothes"

Holiness is being honest, kind and selfless.  There really are true angels among us.  They do good and kind things and never ask for anything in return. You may have seen them preparing meals for the needy, helping an elderly person who lives alone, rendering aide after some kind of trauma or just taking the time to say a kind word or two to someone who could use a friend.

ATP Staff person Susan is another evil witch that works for Doreen Virtue and is even worse than Angela.  I am totally disillusioned by the entire organization.  I had read most of Doreen's books and purchased her card decks before realizing what a money hungry phony she truly is.  Not once has she ever said anything about performing charitable acts toward the elderly, hungry, etc.  In fact, I would venture to say that she is a true sociopath.  A sociopath knows the difference between right and wrong, but doesn't care, and does wrong anyways.  Doreen fools herself into trying to erase the beliefs in guilt and Karma so that she never feels she does anything wrong.  Because she has no guilt, she has no conscience.  Her staff people are the same way.  She does whatever bad thing she wants and has no regrets.  In fact, she even mentions in one of her books how she had people committed to mental institutions for seeing angels when she was a psychologist.  I'm sure she never went back and tried to help the many 1000's of people she hurt in the past.  Oh, well, she tells herself and never feels any regrets or guilt.  And in her courses, she doesn't let anyone question her beliefs.  Jesus would allow discussions and was intelligent and true enough to allow this to happen.  It also happens in the Jewish synagogues.  But if anyone dares to question Doreen on her beliefs, they are thrown out of her circle.  Customers are not allowed to complain, so be prepared that if you shell out $1000's and something goes wrong, you will have no recourse and no one to turn to.  And with their strict no refund policy, you would be screwed if anything should come up that you couldn't go.  It's not even a classroom situation, it is more of a dictatorship.

Because of overwhelming stesses of life, many people seek out comfort and something to believe in.  That's how cults originate.  If someone feels he has no where to turn, the cult promises salvation and everlasting peace.  Just pay your money and you will see the light (or angels in Doreen's case).  And, oh by the way, you must think and act exactly as the cult says or you will be cast aside. Cults like this are dangerous to society.  They prey on the most vulnerable. They brainwash people into thinking that  the cult leader is some kind of profit and is the only one who can lead people to salvation.  This is blasphemy of the worst kind. History is full of these false profits. If you have  supported Doreen's money grubbing cult, RUN.  Count your blessings and live your live in a loving, kind and giving way. You do not need her or anyone else to lead you to salvation. You can do this yourself.

Its amazing how "christians" always say dont judge, then you come across an article like this and all you see is critism and judging, Im a wiccan, and i believe in angels, my fiance and husband to be is a christian and even he says how unbelievable it is how people can judge ones faith. we are only human, just like you!! and some of the people saying this is like a cult, come on people, open your eyes, take into consideration, you have a leader at your church, and its a group, isnt that a cult too???? oh and one of the comment i read saying that  we dont need a leader to teach us things, then why are there priests in churches leading your faith???

I am not trying to be judgemental myself, but look at what you guys are saying, its contridicting everything you saying, we dont go and judge your faiths and write articles about christianity, so why try and bash us???

Please just be open minded and think what you are saying

How to make money today. Get a bunch of people (gullible fools) to believe every word you say, it does not matter if it's true or not. Hey worked for George Bush didnt it? You can't see the angels? Dammit you're just not trying hard enough, pay me extra and i'll show you. Over there look, quick, oh missed it again, sorry, maybe next time.

I have read the article on Doreen Virtue and many of the comments. I have read several of Doreen's books and have not taken anything negative from them. In fact, I've looked at her writings with an open mind and used my own judgement to decide what made sense and didn't. I don't think that anything she is trying to say is negative or calling to "evil" entities in any way--in fact just the opposite.

I have a Master's Degree in Healtheology, which I acquired through the American Institute of Holistic Theology, an accredited distance learning school. I studied in this capacity because I had a full time job and two young children at the time. This worked very well for me.

I noticed that there have been claims made here, that Doreen does not have a valid Degree. I'm not sure I follow how this claim is backed up. I'm sure that many would consider my degree to be worthless, but my school is accredited through the "Drugless Practioners" and I worked hard for 9 years for my degree.

I'm afraid the "New Age" movement has a bad name by many religious followers. I'm sorry to hear that because I have found that I have learned a great deal by being open to this and have found both happiness and spiritual healing that unfortunatelly, my Christian upbringing had not given me. In fact, growing up, as a teen, I was in so much spiritual pain and turmoil that I wanted out of my life. I am very happy that I chose not to leave as I have found that changing my attitude has changed my life.

Yes, I am at peace with life, and yes, I have acquired everything that I ever dreamed of and more. Yes, I have asked angels (even prior to reading Doreen's writings) for help in times of need. I have dreamed of angels and what a lovely esperience that is. I have journeyed to Glastonbury on a spirtual journey that brought me to my guide, a Priestess of Avalon. There I also met a clairvoyant (I am not clairvoyant, by the way), who had studied with Doreen Virtue. She seems to me, to be affected very positively by Doreen's teachings. On my trip, I felt guided and protected (by what or who, I don't know), by someone or something that I didn't see. Every step on that sacred journey was amazingly beautiful to me.

As for The Secret, that was mentioned earlier, I didn't feel like that was bogus at all. IThere have been some scientific studies proving that positive thinking can bring positive things to you. If you follow quantum physics, you know that everything in the Universe is vibrating at a certain frequency throughout the Universe. Whatever you do, think, or say, has a vibration that emanates out into the cosmos and pulls other things that are vibrating at the same frequency to you. So, as in the example, the killings at Virginia Tech-- I'm sure those kids were not thinking about a shooting, however, they may have had some negative thoughts going on--perhaps relationship problems, perhaps someone died, perhaps, as with the shooter, they felt alienated from friends or a misfit in society. These are negative thoughts that can acclimate to bring negative things to a climax. I'm sure nobody there intended for that to happen. It is sometimes very difficult to focus on positive when negative things happen. I don't think the book stated anywhere that you should ignore the negative happenings in your life--just try not to dwell on them, because that starts you on a negative spiral downward.

I can only respond from my own experience, and my experiences have been very good ones. I have gone from a very sad, distraught, anxious person, who probably would have been put on drugs if I had seen a Dr., to a peacefull, go with the flow, happy person who lives life to the fullest. I have never felt or believed that God was something to be feared, but I feel that all of us in this world are part of the same thing--we are all children of God (if you are a follower of the Bible). In that respect, none of us should be passing judgement on those who believe differently.

Are Doreen's writings a hoax? I don't know. I've never seen an angel (aside from in dreams), nor have I seen faeries, or other entities. Do they exist? I don't know. I am certainly interested in hearing her perspective and I do know that in talking to Angels and Faeries, etc. I have found I am much happier than I have ever been before. I have also found healing and protection in communicating my requests to higher powers.

That is my opinion, for what it is worth.

I've read a few of Doreen Virtue's books and have heard her on CoasttoCoast radio a few times.   My only claim to angel contact that I'm aware of is that I can see the colors of them and feel them around me -- sometimes.   

Today I received an email about a four-day course in Hawaii that Doreen Virtue is giving on how to become a certified Angel Therapist.  

From her newsletter:

"The four-day course is personally taught by Doreen Virtue in a beautiful oceanfront venue on the Big Island of Hawaii, with its powerful healing energy, from October 29 through November 1, 2009. "  

I was intrigued and wanted to learn more about it.  Considering my sister lives in Hawaii,  this could be a nice two-fer learning vacation.   And if her program is legit, maybe it would help me be a better astrologer, heighten my spiritual awareness, etc.  I began to look forward to this vacation/workshop until....

After reading the description about her course online,  my next stop was to check out the prices for the host hotel.   But  I was UNpleasantly surprised to find that that information isn't given to you until AFTER you sign up and pay the conference tuition of $777 (early registration fee, usually $999).    That just doesn't seem right to me.   Why aren't we told the name of the hotel and how much it costs BEFORE we pay for the course?    That raises a red flag for me.   I don't understand the secrecy???   Then there is this: 

"Cancellation Policy -- A $250 cancellation applies to all classes. No refunds will be honored less than sixty (60) days prior to the event. There are no exceptions to this policy. There are no transfers possible for this class or any classes."

A couple red flags and I'm doing a search on Doreen Virtue's reputation.  That's what landed me here.  I don't know what to think now.   

Tara

Hello everyone, for years I read Doreen Virtues books and purchased her Angel cards.  I must admit that the cards gave me a message which many times I interpret it such a way it would fit my current question (Many times my interpretation was out there) but again, it is a message from the Angels.  

Then a few days ago I ran into an iPhone application called "Messages From Your Angels Perpetual Calendar" by Doreen Virtue.  I purchased it for the price of $3.99 (Now it is $2.99 - wonder why? - being sarcastic here).  The application features messages from your angels but what they do not tell you is that the messages are attached to each day (365 messages) of the year no matter what year you are in.  In other words, I will receive as well as everyone else the same message on January 1st 2010, 2011, 2012, etc.

I was very surprised to see hoe "my" angels would give the person next to me the "same" message on the same day.  Wow!!! That is synchronicity!!!

Anyway, I found the Doreen Virtue's iPhone application information very misleading and after reading the article above as well as the comments that followed I can see why.  It was a great disappointment.

However, I found other applications that are more realistic when it comes to messages you can received; for example "Universe Nazca Cards".  This deck of digital cards are given to you in a random way pretty much the same way you shuffle your deck which is what I expected form Doreen Virtue's cards.  So now I receive my messages using the Nazca Cards instead of the Doreen Virtue's cards.

Live and Learm!!!

OK!

1. Healers, by reference alone, heal people!

2. Any modality ONLY works IF you believe it will.

3. There will always be skeptics just as the church has atheists.

4. There has never been a Holistic war, yet wars over religion are still raging everywhere.

5. Any writer of any book LIKES to make money, people are not FORCED to buy any book and that’s called FREE WILL, people within denominations of certain churches MUST pay tithing’s of 10% of their income for LIFE! (now who's doing it for money only) (also the Vatican is the richest country in the world (yes, it is a country))

6. I have studied many modalities and do not practice under the name tag of any of them as I do not fully (100%) believe in 1 single system that works. BUT I can tell you now, they DO work and they do change people’s lives and it's ALWAYS for the better.

7. Religion is for people who are scared to go to hell, Spirituality is for people who have already been there!

Negativity is from non-believers, anyone can change their beliefs at any time.

No matter what you decide to educate yourself  in it costs money.

Truthfully, here's my take on paying for things.

1. To cheap: you'll expect a cheap product for a cheap price! (it won't work to its specification ot it will break easily)

2. Mid range: unsure if it's going to be a lesser product than the expensive one and not sure if it's going to break like the cheap one. When it does work you'll brag about the lower cost you got than someone else paid for the more expensive version and when it breaks you'll complaing about how much it cost.

3. Expensive: (correctly priced) If you pay a premium for ANYTHING!! you expect it to damn well work and work to its specifications exactly! If it breaks you expect it to be replaced under warranty and you'll be proud for being able to afford such an item and cherish it.

Examples: for the socially tainted mindset.

SIMPLE VERSION

1. A second hand junker car: Iit'll break down, over heat, wobble at 65mph. But you'll expect it to, its CHEAP

2. A mid range, possibly used car: It'll get you around town without to much hassle, yet when you take the out of town trip it'll not sit on the highway well and maybe there's a slight wobble at 50 that clears at 55 and the electric sunroof keeps on jamming. All the premium cars keep flashing you to move over as they want to overtake.

3. The high end car: It starts everytime, granted it drinks more gas, but wow it flys, the aircon always works, the seats are heated for the cold weather. You take pride in the vehicle and IF anything should go wrong the dealership will bring you a loaner while they service it.

HOLISTIC VERSION

1. The $10 medium: You see a medium at a fairground and she tells you a whole bunch of things you kinda relate to. Nothing is out of the ordinary and you feel the $10 would have been better spent on a burger. (no offence to fairground mediums intended, this is purely and EXAMPLE thought up in my head (free will))

2. You check out the local ad papers and find a practitioner offering healing at discounted price with a special offer on 5 sessions for $250.00: You go see the practitioner and feel like things are helping you understand your life and your self a little better. No main issues get resolved and you either tell your friends that you think you could have found someone better or you just don't bother going back again.

3. You goto a well recommended practitioner who charges $200.00 per hour: You walk into the practitioners nicely preened, well turned out office and your mindset is 'I will damn well get my moneys worth', this IS the right attitude. You come out of every session feeling like every cent of the $200.00 was well spent and can't wait to book the next session. You see changes happen in your life and explain to your friends that spending $200.00 was the best money invested ever.

Now please not I used the term 'practitioner', this can refer to ANY modality, even a shrink (these DO work for some people).

Differences?

Chiropractor: Works with the physcial.

Shrink: Works with the pshycological (these are also known as Alienists, look it up)

Healer / Holistic Practitioner: Works with energy and emotions. (we all have them, even you big guy!)

Doesn't matter which one works for you, just work it out, go see the one you need and stop complaining about getting no value for money when you're a cheap charlie!!!

Don't brag about how little you paid for something like it's a competition and then moan and gripe about it when it doesn't last or doesn't wotk. Save up, buy the deluxe version and damn well enjoy it!

I hope this message helps people understand that they are just driven by ego?

Whats ego? What role does it play in our lives?

You best see a consultant!!

Or email me back.

But i'm NOT cheap.

Love, Life, Spirit!

M.Bodhi

wo dudes!  I'm sitting here re-reading over some of these articles....

Indigos... very special... more special than the little Down Syndrome child on the street?

Doreen Virtue now has her son Charles writing books about angels.. she's getting a D.I.V.O.R.C.E from Stephen Farmer, has her other son writing books too, and is making a mint off the backs of insecurities in people.  I wish her the very best of luck when she meets some of those angels she has peddled around like cheap bikes, and for so long.

I was caught out by her for a while....  The woman is a thief.  And a scam artist.  She had some very good women working with her at one stage, but they've all left.  Thank God.

And I pity the poor fools who are caught up with her still.  Those who got out are very lucky;  she needs to be sued.  

She is not a proper doctor.  She does NOT have the qualifications.  She will NOT allow anyone to question her, and she is NOT straight up about her business.  For that is what it is; a business... nothing more than a slick selling of snake oil.

Dear Savattra

I agree with the fact that some people who claim to be spirtual healers do play with people's minds beacuse it happened to me once with a psychic who robbed me of money , her name claimed to be Angela Mcgill Aka Angela johnson and almost made me go crazy. She was not as positive as Doreen with her love and angels. On the other hand she told me dark spirits were around me and scared me half to death. She said I had to pay her several thousands of dollars to cleanse me of this. It was the most horrible experience of my life. She had a hold on me for about 4 years and one day I was lucky enough to snap out of it. Since then I am very spiritual and understand that I have the power to make my life what ever I want it to be and that no Demon can get to me unless I let my mind believe it. I have read some of Doreens literature and I think some of her thinking is positive, but I am sceptical about some other thoughts she has that sound pretty crazy.  Sincerly yours , Anniepie

Totally.  Look, the woman is a scam artist.  Simple as that.  She's a thief.  She robs from the poor to get driven around in Limos.  How she can sleep at night boggles the mind.

well if giving people hope is a crime then she, I and most other healers are all guilty.

I guess what ever was wrong with you didn't get healed?

Maybe your belief system is so narrow minded it can never be changed?

I pity you, namaste'

M.Bodhi

How did you find out she was getting divorced from Steven Farmer?  I was just curious.  It seems as if everyone is very tight lipped about it.

Thank you for this article! I for one would love to hear more about this 'other' side of her...I think it is important because life is not all airy fairy and she never talks about her hardships or makes her stories remotely close to everyday life for example I read her Goddess and Angel book and she was saying how she wanted to move into a new house to me I interpreted that as sorry my 5 million dollar house on the beach isn't enough let me get a more expensive place...I used to really admire her but as time went on I just felt like she has no clue? I always wondered why she never did more like start up a foundation like louise hay or show pictures of her going to help others in a charitable sense...maybe she has and maybe i am being to hard on her but I really thank hurricane baby for unveiling the truth. And there is no shame in the truth its only when you try to hide or be something you are not.

It's sad if anyone gets a divorce.  I"m not judging her on that.  Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors...  and everyone has a right to privacy.  Including Doreen Virtue and Stephen Farmer.  

It's just the God Damn lies man that gets to me.  The false hopes and the money that vulnerable people have dished out to her and her kids - it's dangerous.  Very Cult-like.  And extremely dishonest.  God help you Doreen.

I guess if there was such a concern about her privacy, I wonder why the subject of her getting divorce was brought up.  After all, that is very personal issue.   It makes me question the so called facts being brought to the table and whether the information is legitimate.  If that is the case, are we any better then she is for talking about it?

I am no great fan of Doreen's.  I have found many of her practices to be questionable.  But if we are bringing half truths about a person who is not here to defend herself aren’t we being just as two faced as she is reported to be.  I believe in facts.  If statements issued are unable to be backed with facts, we need to think seriously about what we say in the first place.     

Wo!  Don't shoot the messenger!  It's not a half truth...  and it's not that she's getting divorced???!  it's because of the pure bullshit she's been pushing!    NO...  I correct myself.. It's not pure bullshit....  it's mostly......  i believe in angels, but they are not here with us to bow to our every whim so we can make money, as Doreen pushes, in a very smart way, I might add.  I am not Catholic, Protestant or of any other religion... I was raised Catholic in Ireland, so I know what it is to be given a lot of stories to make us adhere and be bowing and scraping...

I"m bored with this.  But let me pose this.....

If you are entirely happty with life, would you be buying her cards and such?  It's looking for an answer outside of ourselves......

Faith is great..... but the answer is within.... God is everywhere... in us.. as us... with us.. for us... but we are NOT God.     

Look..... I've made my point is... there have been many religions set up with promises.... mostly the price has been to be subservient to the religion in question.  Maybe Doreen is able to communicate with the angels?  If she says this, I have no reason to question her.

  It's all these books, promises, subservience, bickering,and suddenly, yes, suddenly her two sons can see angels and pass on their 'suggestions'.   When other well known 'angel seers' say emphatically that it is not usually passed on through the family...... But the truth is...  as human, we all, without question, have an agenda,...  even in the angel field.....  Because we are human....If not...... then we are God... because as humans we have egos...  I dont

doubt anyone reading this will disagree with my last statetment.  

Doreen Virtue PhD (or however it's spelled!) has made a small fortune telling us all about angels.   For some people it is much more than a small fortune....2.3 million dollars a year probably being a very conservative estimate.  I'd even go as far as to divide that by four or more to the plus.  

I have friends, a lot, who are quite wealthy.  they go about their business and earn big.  A lot in music, a lot in property, etc.  They all promise something to get the sale.  However, I believe there is a line...  When somebody promises that the angels will do whatever you want as long as the cards this somebody draws gives the right answer to a question that might be very difficult to ask, let alone hear an answer that might not suit them or downright affect the next movements of their life, then something is really wrong.  

GET OUT! GO AND DO SOMETHING TO HELP SOMEONE ELSE WITHOUT LOOKING FOR ANYTHING BACK.  IT'S THAT SIMPLE!  NOT EASY TO FOLLOW AND IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO BOW AND SCRARE, BUT IT'S THE ANSWER!!!!!

DO THE NEXT RIGHT THING!  THAT'S ALL THAT' REQUIRED

I do not dispute what you say about Doreens practices, they have been proven to be less then desirable.  We already know that they are catching up with her.  

What I DO have a problem with are statements and accusations made and no proof given of it being true.  When it was requested to back that information with proof we are told in so many ways that it is none of our business by self-righteously saying she has a right to privacy.   

However, I noticed there had been little concern with her privacy a few posts ago when attacks were flying.  If you don’t want to say where you received your information that is one thing, I can respect that, but saying things like “I just knew” isn’t going to fly with me.  It sends up red flags that someone is not telling the truth and I WILL call you on it.   

Saying “I just knew” is no better than Doreen saying “God/Michael told me to tell you such and such”.  With statements like that, it is understood that no questioning of that information is allowed.  How are your statements any different then what Doreen has done with her followers?  Both you and Doreen are asking for readers to have blind faith in what you say. 

Wo Wo wo baby!  Ok.. I didn't 'just know'.. and you're right.  I can't say.  Well done mate for calling me up on it.. now I'll turn my arse so you can spank me the other way!  YOu must be a teacher or somethign, are you?  it doesn't matter to me if I'm believed or not.. I'll go on about my daily business and hopefully all will be well.  As I said, aw God.. getting bored here....

Anyway, gotta fly.  Many people do accuse me of being 'away with the fairies', now that I think of it...  mmmmmm  **pats own head thoughtfully looking all contemplative and brainy**

(pat pat pat)

:)

:)

I just want to thank you for writing this article.

 I myself once bought a book written by Doreen Virtue called “Healing with the Fairies,” and it was so terrible I actually threw it away. To this day, 5 years later, I still haven’t come to terms with how bad that book was.  I can’t believe that I actually threw that book into the trash, which is something I had never done before, as I respect books and writers too much to treat a book like garbage.

 However, the wild claims made by Doreen Virtue (who is, for lack of a better descriptive name, a fraudulent dipstick ) in her horrible book were so appalling, I wanted a full refund for the money I spent on the book. Once I realized that I couldn’t get my money back, I just wanted to take my anger out on the book--I think probably because I couldn’t take my rage out on Doreen Virtue herself.  Even a chance glance at that book on my bookshelf served as a reminder of how I had been mercilessly swindled by a con-artist into buying her crap book. The only reason I chose to throw the book away instead of burning it is because I am not a Nazi.  

It was just so horrible I can’t even fully explain how bad it was. In her writings, she basically took mainstream New Age teachings and blended them with her own ‘channeled’ crazy bullsh*t, with the end results being total crazy garbage. For instance, in the fairies book, Virtue made all kinds of stupid statements and idiotic claims. She made claims such as, “I was healed by a tree,” and “I was healed by a mermaid.”

 This woman even went so far as to claim that butter and other milk products make her aura ‘greasy.’  

I don’t know if I believe in fairies or not, but in her horrible book, Doreen Virtue spent more time talking about her personal life and how the fairies helped lead her to her ‘soul mate,’ and then never even got around to talking about the mechanics of just how it is a person would go about being healed by fairies—which I thought was the point of the stupid book.  

One of the crazier things she did  claim was that ‘light workers’  sometimes will get a whistling sound in their ears because ‘fairies’ are supposedly downloading enlightened information directly into their subconscious minds through the aid of said whistling. That’s certainly not what they taught me in my anatomy class when we studied the ear, I can say that for a fact.  

Let me tell you something else that is true, if this woman really did hallucinate ‘angles,’ ‘fairies,’ ’mermaids’ and every other crazy thing she said she saw, at the very least she would have been subjected to rigorous psychological evaluations to makes certain that she did not schizophrenia. You don’t just wander around saying things like, “Hey, I was healed by a mermaid,” without people saying in return, “Yeah, that or else you’re crazy.”  

     Now, it’s a true fact that I will believe a lot of stuff, and I am quite gullible, I’m not going to lie to you. But good God man, I’m not retarded. Doreen Virtue is a fraud of the worst kind and yet when I do an online search I find very little support when it comes to other people being in agreement to her obviously fraudulent, dishonest, and uneducated ways. I don’t understand how people can read the crap spewed by Virtue and not become angry.

 The Indigo child garbage is a bunch of swill too. I tried to read that dross once even before I tried to read that god awful fairy book, and it was just lies and garbage.  Honestly, I truly believe that the people who accept the teachings of Doreen Virtue represent the very worst of what the New Age community has to offer. They’re totally rated up there with people who wear pyramids on their heads. It’s stunning to me the kinds of things these people are willing to believe and it saddens me too. To be honest, I blame the American education system for this degeneration into stupidity, for we are failing to teach little children critical thinking skills in this country.

At any rate, thank you for posting your article, it made my day, and it let me know that there are other people out there who agree with me that Doreen Virtue is not a good woman.  Doreen Virtue is a rich con-artist, and that’s all she is, and it's all she ever will be.  Amen!

Well I am slightly different to all on here as I happen to believe in Angels but I have grown weary of Doreen for a while as I noticed she seems to be a money hound now not at first maybe it is her husband maybe he is a dark one how does anyone know? As a worker with Angels I am wondering what she is doing regarding issues that need urgent attention such as the state of the planet, the demise of the animals and the dark cloud that hovers over head of us all ie wars, pollution.

I think it appalling for anyone to use their gifts this way, its called a gift for a reason, you don't give a person a gift and ask them to pay for it do you? I know I do not I do see that many seem to charging a lot of money for people to tap into these beautiful beings. Now not many believe that is your own choosing as I don't believe in Jesus the name is wrong. But i can't see how telling people how to make things happen for themselves only is anything but selfish. She should be telling people how to help the planet with her meditations and I see no book on this or seen any Cd's. I see books where she writes a short part then others share their stories and cards that all seem to say the same message. I do in fact have at least 4 of her books and 4 Oracle cards. I use one pack the others all the same. She has made a fortune out of people you can't even go on her forum unless you have paid for classes its an outrage.

Their are so many people that need help and seek angelic assitance who can't afford her classes or books as they are trying to feed themselves and keep a roof over their head does she help them well no you can't message her and get a reply. Too busy spending her money i guess. The reason the planet has had a economical crisis is people charging to much and ripping us off. It has to stop a true servant of God would do his work for free and know this that servant will be given riches to him by natural means and be rich in heaven.

I will not buy any more of her stuff as I just can't when I see her get rich while others are still suffering she should try helping the people of this planet not lining her pockets. Wake up Angels want us to help survive help those in need. Just like the true words of the one you call Jesus. This life will not be that important once its over you can't take your riches with you but The Source or God will be waiting so you better have some good answers ready.

i think this guys underlying msg is good..which is to question everything that you come across in the media and so forth. always follow your hearts and believe in your own truths..there is no right or wrong here..everyone is entitled to their own opinion...if you wanna believe in fairies and angels and mermaids please do so and all the power to you! use your imagination and keep it alive as much as possible! when someone comes along and wants to sell you something even if it is a seemingly good thing you always have to questions their motives...we dont know whats goin on in that great beyond with angels and god and the rules of the universe..we can only guess when it comes down to it...what we have to question is what we know to be wrong in this world and that is our government and the atrocities going on in this world..there is corruption and greed and war and we have to take steps to stop it. never trust the media and the education system its trying to keep you dumbed down..find the love in your hearts and call on those angels and god if you want to if it gives you comfort and strength and lets take our world back from those corrupt men behind the curtain!

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

ps i recommend the documentary zeitgeist and anything exposing the bilderberg group.

i think this guys underlying msg is good..which is to question everything that you come across in the media and so forth. always follow your hearts and believe in your own truths..there is no right or wrong here..everyone is entitled to their own opinion...if you wanna believe in fairies and angels and mermaids please do so and all the power to you! use your imagination and keep it alive as much as possible! when someone comes along and wants to sell you something even if it is a seemingly good thing you always have to questions their motives...we dont know whats goin on in that great beyond with angels and god and the rules of the universe..we can only guess when it comes down to it...what we have to question is what we know to be wrong in this world and that is our government and the atrocities going on in this world..there is corruption and greed and war and we have to take steps to stop it. never trust the media and the education system its trying to keep you dumbed down..find the love in your hearts and call on those angels and god if you want to if it gives you comfort and strength and lets take our world back from those corrupt men behind the curtain!

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

ps i recommend the documentary zeitgeist and anything exposing the bilderberg group.

 

 

 

Doreen Virtue had indeed divorced husband number four, Steven Farmer. It is in her November 2009 newsletter which she has published, available for all members of the public to read. In fact it makes a rather interesting read! Mr Farmer is the persecutor she is the victim! Ms Virtue has stated that the court has ordered her to pay Mr Farmer $35,000 US Dollars a month in alimony.

She further states that she initially wanted to retire from teaching but decided to resume purely based on money due to having to pay alimony to her ex-husband. However, conveniently (in my opinion) she now wants to resume her angel work not for the money but because of her Divine life purpose.

Hi Everyone,

I used to be a fan of Doreen Virtue back in 2006 and 2007. I became dissillusioned with her in 2008 when I realized a lot of what she wrote was not backed up with any references, facts, or even logic. A lot of what she writes is based on her own "channeling" sessions, and much of it contradicts with what other people have expierenced in regards to the same topics.

Although, I ended up remaining signed on to her Newsletter, and recieved it by email on occasion. I was utterly shocked by the TONE of her November/2009 email. In between the lines, you can tell, this women is devastated AND embarrased by her divorce. She is calling him a PERSECUTOR and saying that she has forgiven him, but CLEARLY she is bull shitting. I didn't know that for the past year, she's been dealing with a divorce from her "TWIN FLAME" husband Stephen Farmer.  Although, I do feel a great deal of sympathy about the divorce--it is painful and very difficult.

But at the same time...wow! I believe it's shocking because this is a woman who constantly wrote about her soulmate connection with her husband, and how he was her TWIN FLAME. Her one and only. How the Angels and Fairies helped them to find each other, and blah, blah, blah. This is going to disappointing to her fans, because like me at the time, she IS relied upon as an example. If anything this is a WAKE UP call, not just for her readers, but also HERSELF.

Sincerely,

Sonia

to Murph, Hahahaha. You ARE weak-minded, and a fool. Don't blame anyone else for you feebleness. You remind me of those lame-brained kids who watched movies like Superman and then promptly jumped out the window only to break their own legs, and then the movie gets blamed for it. You get the Darwin Awards lady. Haha

Never before in the history of World beliefs have mortals conversed with as equals, coerced, directed, ordered or otherwise 'used' the entities or spirits closest to the Divine (which some call Angels) for their own personal preferences.  Who are we to know the intricate nature of the grand design?

One of the BIG reasons that the early monotheistic religions forbade shamanic beliefs, witchcraft and similar 'individual' connection to the spirit realms was because they wanted us to have to trust in the Divine purpose for all things.  Invoking spirits for our own personal use and expecting them to all be 'fluffy, goodness and light with only our best interests at heart is foolhardy at best, downright dangerous at worst.

How many deeply spiritual and religious leaders who have dedicated their entire lives to prayer, mediation, good works, teaching and enlightenment have even claimed to have personal associations with more than 2 or 3 Divine entities?  Yet the Doreen Virtue money-go-round claims seemingly personal knowledge of not only all the Angles but ascended masters, fairies and a whole host more.  A dozen lifetimes would not be enough to know all this with any authority and I imagine that most of these publications contain material aimed at spiritual seekers who have no firm direction.

Married and divorced 4 times, this does not demonstrate any kind of stability or commitment to human relationships and given the subject matter she prefers to write about, I leave it up to you to decide whether she prefers to live in reality or fantasy.  I personally don't mind what decisions people make in their personal lives but a spiritual leader as Ms Virtue would have us believe her to be, surely has to command respect for basic human tenants.  If you can't look up to her in the basic aspects of her life, then what does that say?

Every person here has the right to question what really works for them in their own life by proof and evidence.  Has Ms Virtue given you a 'direct line' to an Angel or has she given you permission to look outside of the normal and make your own mind up? Are you living your soul purpose (and therefore your Divine purpose) as a result of her words or are you seeing the messages all around you, every day and trusting your own intuition?  If its a combination of both, perhaps, regardless of whether what Ms Virtue writes is true or not, it has done some good.  The key is not to give our power away to anyone - trust what has proved to work for YOU and don't believe all you read.

 

Everything your saying about the bible, and Jesus, and demons, and Moses and excreta can't be proved anymore then what Doreen Virtue claims. It's all a matter of faith. And people have different faiths. Personally, I'll stick with Doreen Virtue because what she has to say gives me a sense of happiness and peace. The Bibles supposed to be a loving book, and maybe for people who are inspired by it, it somehow is, but for me, outside of valuable lessons like the golden rule which it did not originate by the way, all it's given me is fear and horror about going to some supposedly real place called hell, told me I was a sinner, and basically called me every damn name in the world, while esposing to preach "love". I'll stick with Doreen Virtue, thank you, where beautiful angels see me as a wonderful person and help me every day.

Hello,

I have read some Doreen Virtue's books, and in answer only to some of the above arguments, and not to defend or condemn her, because this is not my place, here are just a few of my thoughts/opinions on some issues:

1. Money is a good thing, not a bad thing

2. It's the way we think about money or use it that can be good or bad

3.The Catholic as well as other churches are pretty rich, too

4. Although many people do not believe in angels, many people do. Obviously the books are written for those who do.

5. In the end, all these books do is encourage us to pray. Ask and it will be given, as the Bible says.

Finally I would like to share a personal story where a friend of mine read a prayer in the book written by D. Virtue 'Healing with the Angels'. The prayer was for parents who want to better communicate with and help their children - my friend read this prayer one night and the very next morning she discovered that her in-house nanny was physically abusing her child. She fired her on the spot and this went a long way to helping her heal her relationship with her child (who by the way could not speak and tell her what was going on).

These and all books as well as people offering information are just tools to help us improve our life and ourselves. How we use these tools is up to us!

Wow, this conversation has been going on for more than 2 years...interesting... well people are passionate about their beliefs that is for sure, this blog is living proof. Spirituality means different things to different people. think about all that was going on in the world as far as equality and prejudices go way back when the bible was written. The bible is a good start and at that time fear was the only way to control the masses. Now we have evolved and grown as humans and on a soul level. I am NOt dismissing the bible and its teachings but people change and grow by nature and thus does spirituality and our belief systems. Anything...whether it be the bible or any book that makes you feel guilty, afraid or judged is not written in God's words. We have set limitations on God's love with our ego driven human minds. God's love is not conditional, our love is. Those that read the bible would see, it clearly states over and over that the power of God is within us, so speaking of God as seperate from yourself nad an allmighty judge of humans means you missed the point entirely.

I have read Doreen's books and done her meditations and even talked to her for a reading a handful of times. What I experienced was valid when she did Angel Therapy on me, then again I am very sensitive to beings and energies around me that are not visible, I felt physical sensations while she was working on me or should I say while the angels were working on me. I have her angel oracle card deck and the messages are very loving and god driven. I'm not fighting for any side here, just sharing my own experience. Doreen's book resonate with me, if they don't them don't read them, read something else. As far as her divorce goes, even soulmates part ways. She never said this is the man I will spend eternity with, she said I found the man I was looking for, people change and grow apart. We are all her to learn valuable lessons in love and our soulmates are our greatest teachers.

Blessings,

Amberama28

I haven't had chance to read all of the comments. I agree and disagree with you Savvatra. There are angels and demons in this world. Demons prey on those negative souls and take on nasty habits like smoking, alcoholism etc. People have to be strong in this life to avoid manipulation, and a way to do that is to invoke the archangels or your guardian angel.

The name of your guardian angel is the first name that comes to you during meditation. I also believe that anyone with a true clairvoyant gift should give it out freely and not charge. Una Pearce is a spiritualist in Huddersfield and she does not charge a penny. I give out reiki freely.

I am a natural optimist. I give out money freely and do not expect anything in return. How many of us really consider how beneficial it is to give freely to others in the world. A quick smile, a compliment, dropping a penny for someone to find etc. A lot of the world is about selfish gain. Look at how everything goes up. It is truly ridiculous, but sadly we live in it. Money is another form of energy at the end of the day, think good about it and be happy and grateful for everything you have in your life and you will attract more of it whether through angel therapy or not.

Love is all there is. Why do people continue to deviate for their own gain?

Our decisions to take whatever classes, courses, lessons, workshops are ours alone. They are tied to our learning experiences. Why does someone feel that it's okay to belittle another to "save" others from their own learning experience whatever that may be. Some people spend over $2500 on a tv. let's get real.

I am an Angel Therapy practitioner trained by Doreen Virtue. I enjoyed her presence and connection to the angels. I have never judged her or the experience. If she is making a lot of money doing what she loves, bringing people to the light and serving God, I am happy for her and all those with whom she touches. How can anyone put a price on that? Let's face it, the distribution of wealth is so lopsidded - have you checked out what NFL players make or CEO's of companies that don't spread "light" and love?

How about we get away from the "facts" which by the way, many times, are based on false premises. We weren't there during the bible times, how can we verify anything?(By the way, I was raised Roman Catholic).Not that I don't believe in the bible, but I take everything with a grain of salt.

Does having a class or certification make us better or more capable at something? I think not, it might awaken something within us. What if all we needed to do was become aligned to who we were in a past lifetime to be able to do it in this lifetime? Isn't that coming from a higher perspective and awareness. So many people are so stuck in a limited perspective and awareness. Perhaps we have all the skills and knowledge within us. Let's embrace different perpectives. I know people who are better lawyers than actual 'lawyers'. And are all lawyers, 'liars'?

It's up to us individually to connect to our Source and make the decisions best for us.

Why don't people who feel the desire and need to put down others, spend their energy and time doing something positive for the planet and bring a higher awareness that will have a lasting effect as opposed to keep people stuck in the lower realms so their ego's can be filled?

Has Doreen been contacted directly? Where is the communication link here?

Walk in her shoes...then you have the right to comment. Achieve her success and then you will be on the same playing field. You know what they say about glass houses.

Savattra,

When you focus on the negitive that is what you will see. You say you believe in God, yet you have so much fear and hate.

So sad you want everyone believe as you do. Even in your bible it says God is Love.

Wow I have read most of the posts here on Doreen Virtue and ppls opinions of her and of the Light and the Dark and charging of services. My opinion is We All are born with psychic gifts and it's up to us whether we choose to use them or not. When you are willing to open yourself up to Spirit World you are opening yourself up to the Light and the Dark. IAM a Reiki Healer and we Invoke the Archangels Michael (for protection)and Rafael (for Healing)when we do healings, I have seen the Dark also. To FEAR the Dark feeds it!!! You give it power thru your FEAR. If you want to work with Spirits and not have anything to do with the Dark then Make Your Intentions Clear as to that. All I had to do was Pray to God and ask that I never see the Dark Entities again and BELIEVE, KNOW, God will and can help you, he will stop this, and I haven't never seen them again. How do you know it was a Spirit from the Dark, maybe it was a lost soul just looking to you for help, you opened yourself up to all Spirits. If people would do some research, ask others who do work/talk with Spirits when contemplating doing such things, any honest person would tell you that there is a possibility of seeing the Dark Entities. To be Mentally handicapped for years because you seen a dark entity means you were unstable before you even started trying to talk with spirits. Anyone who has any kind of instability going on in their minds has no business trying to work with Spirits. if you had told them (Dark) beat it, get the hell out and don't come back, and had Faith in God that they wouldn't bother you anymore, they would have known your Intentions and left you alone. If any Spiritual Practioner knew you had mental issues, they would not teach you until your issues are straightened out, they would help you with your issues, but not teach you how to contact Spirits. I don't think Doreen would have had you in her workshop if this was known to her. You can verify that by calling or contacting her and asking if she would teach someone with mental issues how to contact Spirits, Angels anything in the Spirit World. Nothing is stronger than God and the Light of God, and when you ask for God to protect you from seeing and being bothered by such things and have FAITH and BELIEVE he will, then what on earth is there to be afraid of. So many say they have Faith and Believe when in fact they are just words that come out of their mouths, not true deep felt feelings of Trust, Faith and Belief. If you Trust God, if you Believe God can and will protect you then what are you going crazy over? I've never read anywhere where Metatron was a fallen Angel either, if your going to post such things, post your facts/proof with them plz. As far as charging for services, I've never charged but let's look at this a bit differently here, Andre Bocelli is a beautiful opera singer and his singing is his gift, does he not charge for a concert, cd or appearance? Ray Charles, etc. Dr. Wayne Dyer is a beautiful and inspirational motivational speaker, His gift is helping us realize our gifts are there waiting, does he not charge, Does not a teacher get paid, just because we have gifts that we choose to use and help others with doesn't mean ppl shouldn't get paid for them. It's unreasonable to think just because someone has "Gifts" they shouldn't charge, how many singers, writers, painters get paid for their beautiful works. We All have gifts and its up to us whether we choose to use them or not. I admit there are good and bad in all walks of life and professions but that doesn't mean a person shouldn't get paid for their good deeds, its called Karma, you do good you get back good in abundance. There are many realms to heaven, there are many hierarchy of Angels, each for different realms, for a reason, I BELIEVE in Angels and I believe we can communicate with them if we want to, what we can only communicate with our dearly departed, but not with Angelic Guides. Think about it. There is so much negativity going on, on this thread, so much hate and anger when you let go of the hate and anger you will be more God like yourselves. If Doreen Virtue is intentionally misrepresenting herself and charging so much money don't you think God knows this and Karma will come back on her. She in her way is trying to help ppl. You may not agree with the way in which she does it or agree with all she says or charges, ( I know of some who charge more than her) but that doesn't make her a shyster, just means difference of opinion and she should be hung for this. Judge Ye That Ye Be Judged. Hmm who said that? I'm sorry for all who have been taken advantage of by supposedly "Spiritual" ppl. I truly am, but you don't have to crucify a being that is trying to help others just because you don't agree with what they say or how they teach or how much they charge. You listen, you question, you take from that which resonates with you, and let the rest go. No reason for all this negative attitude. Why do some lawyers or doctors that are specialists charge more than others? Because they are better at what they do than some others, correct. What happened to kindness, compassion, empathy? If Doreen is a lost soul scamming others you should be praying for her to come back to our source of creation not condemning. Where is the forgiveness the love at? How can we have Peace on Earth if you can't forgive and let it go and let God take care of her. I will pray for all of you negative thinkers and writers here and hope your hearts let go of your negative thoughts and replace them with love for all. Ask your Angelic Guides to help you with this, you'll be amazed at the help you can receive, and if you Believe you can receive it, you Will receive it. You don't need anyone to teach you to ask for help from your Angelic Guides. You Can Do It. The Angels want to help us, but we have to ask first, they are not allowed to intervene unless We Ask them to. Have Faith, Believe and Trust in God and the Angels they want us to. Namaste to the believers, and I pray God Blesses everyone abundantly with Much Love, Good Health and Prosperity. BTW I have never taken a course from Doreen but I have used her Number Sequences by the Angels and No One can convince me that the Angels don't try to communicate with us. It would be small minded to think only our departed loved ones and friends can communicate with us and not our Angels.

Doreen is a complete fraud. I have read all of her books. They are good and when she wrote them I think she was in a good place. I don't know what happened to her. Power, greed, divorce hard to say. She has tried so hard to get everyone to believe her husband is evil. I don't know him at all but it is a shame she tried so hard to destroy him. But those who are close to her and her organization know she is a total fraud. She is a liar, so is her son Grant. Who she was when she wrote those books and who she is today is like night and day. I am a certified ATP and I can honestly say I am completely disappointed to find out first hand the truth about her. I love the angels but Doreen isn't talking to them. I was completely broken hearted when I found out the truth about her. I really believed in her. I supported her and like many other ATP's promoted her classes, books, CD's, and cards to my clients. But what she has written in those books is not who she is in her real life. Her primary goal has been to make money because out of her divorce she has to pay Steven like $30,000 per month plus or something according to her private board posts. Now she is lost. Power, greed and money are her primary motivaters. Love seems to be lost.

I personally don't care where Doreen got her degree she definately knows a great deal about psychology and uses it to confuse, manipulate and control others. She deserves an honorary degree for it because she really has mastered this skill. She particularly preys on recovering alcoholics, co-dependants and those with low self esteem. It's quite strange to watch others be fooled and you wonder don't these people see she is lying.

At her ATP events we were told that we would be watched as ATP's and could loose our certifications if we conducted ourselves inappropriately. I had no idea what that meant. But later it is clear she watches any and everyone. I have no idea how she finds time to write books. Then again maybe she doesn't write them. I notice she co-authors books with people and just adds her name to there book which is mutually beneficial.

Off and on she creates fictional names on the angel message board (a private ATP, AI message board) and pretends to be other people to spy on us, to get to know our secrets and what we are saying. She is very paraniod about what people think of her and always thinks people are trying to get her and destroy her.

She uses the angel therapy message boards to get ideas for her classes and books based on other people knowledge to profit herself but threatens others with lawsuits all the time for copying her work.

It is very important to her to instill a victim-co-dependant mentality for her follows to. Yes she talks about prayer and it is powerful. But the way she presents it is like poor me I can help myself and I am a victim of others.

She encourages others feel sorry for themselves and blame their pasts lives for all the bad things that happen. I was very disappointed that she never uplifted people instead she would just commiserate with them. For someone with an education in Psychology I thought this was strange. But, she needed them to be co-dependant so they would still need her. (It is more profitable to keep people sick then for them to get well.)

She doesn't uplift and inspire. If you are too powerful she will push you out. She will try to destroy your career or get you fired. I have seen her do this to many people. She wants to be the only one in the lime light. If you try to grow in this field she will commit to destroy your career. She doesn't want anyone to take her place. Again this is very strange to me in a spiritual community. But I think a lot of the truth will come out soon. This is the year of integrity. I hope the truth comes out through her. That would be more healing for the entire community of ATP's and AI's and at least preserve some of her integrity. Being authentic at least would allow others to be compassionate with her. Honesty is the best policy. Human beings tend to respect people who tell the truth themselves rather than they were exposed and then appologize later. Doreen I strongly recommend you tell others the truth. You owe it to all of us who trusted you.

Did I mention the whole Dawn Pearce/Doreen Virtue shame? Another time. Isn't Doreen Virtue's brother names Dale Pearce? Don't know if it is true. Just a rumor I guess.

Doreen is a complete fraud. I have read all of her books. They are good and when she wrote them I think she was in a good place. I don't know what happened to her. Power, greed, divorce hard to say. She has tried so hard to get everyone to believe her husband is evil. I don't know him at all but it is a shame she tried so hard to destroy him. But those who are close to her and her organization know she is a total fraud. She is a liar, so is her son Grant. Who she was when she wrote those books and who she is today is like night and day. I am a certified ATP and I can honestly say I am completely disappointed to find out first hand the truth about her. I love the angels but Doreen isn't talking to them. I was completely broken hearted when I found out the truth about her. I really believed in her. I supported her and like many other ATP's promoted her classes, books, CD's, and cards to my clients. But what she has written in those books is not who she is in her real life. Her primary goal has been to make money because out of her divorce she has to pay Steven like $30,000 per month plus or something according to her private board posts. Now she is lost. Power, greed and money are her primary motivaters. Love seems to be lost.

I personally don't care where Doreen got her degree she definately knows a great deal about psychology and uses it to confuse, manipulate and control others. She deserves an honorary degree for it because she really has mastered this skill. She particularly preys on recovering alcoholics, co-dependants and those with low self esteem. It's quite strange to watch others be fooled and you wonder don't these people see she is lying.

At her ATP events we were told that we would be watched as ATP's and could loose our certifications if we conducted ourselves inappropriately. I had no idea what that meant. But later it is clear she watches any and everyone. I have no idea how she finds time to write books. Then again maybe she doesn't write them. I notice she co-authors books with people and just adds her name to there book which is mutually beneficial.

Off and on she creates fictional names on the angel message board (a private ATP, AI message board) and pretends to be other people to spy on us, to get to know our secrets and what we are saying. She is very paraniod about what people think of her and always thinks people are trying to get her and destroy her.

She uses the angel therapy message boards to get ideas for her classes and books based on other people knowledge to profit herself but threatens others with lawsuits all the time for copying her work.

It is very important to her to instill a victim-co-dependant mentality for her follows to. Yes she talks about prayer and it is powerful. But the way she presents it is like poor me I can help myself and I am a victim of others.

She encourages others feel sorry for themselves and blame their pasts lives for all the bad things that happen. I was very disappointed that she never uplifted people instead she would just commiserate with them. For someone with an education in Psychology I thought this was strange. But, she needed them to be co-dependant so they would still need her. (It is more profitable to keep people sick then for them to get well.)

She doesn't uplift and inspire. If you are too powerful she will push you out. She will try to destroy your career or get you fired. I have seen her do this to many people. She wants to be the only one in the lime light. If you try to grow in this field she will commit to destroy your career. She doesn't want anyone to take her place. Again this is very strange to me in a spiritual community. But I think a lot of the truth will come out soon. This is the year of integrity. I hope the truth comes out through her. That would be more healing for the entire community of ATP's and AI's and at least preserve some of her integrity. Being authentic at least would allow others to be compassionate with her. Honesty is the best policy. Human beings tend to respect people who tell the truth themselves rather than they were exposed and then appologize later. Doreen I strongly recommend you tell others the truth. You owe it to all of us who trusted you.

Did I mention the whole Dawn Pearce/Doreen Virtue shame? Another time. Isn't Doreen Virtue's brother names Dale Pearce? Don't know if it is true. Just a rumor I guess.

Doreen is a complete fraud. I have read all of her books. They are good and when she wrote them I think she was in a good place. I don't know what happened to her. Power, greed, divorce hard to say. She has tried so hard to get everyone to believe her husband is evil. I don't know him at all but it is a shame she tried so hard to destroy him. But those who are close to her and her organization know she is a total fraud. She is a liar, so is her son Grant. Who she was when she wrote those books and who she is today is like night and day. I am a certified ATP and I can honestly say I am completely disappointed to find out first hand the truth about her. I love the angels but Doreen isn't talking to them. I was completely broken hearted when I found out the truth about her. I really believed in her. I supported her and like many other ATP's promoted her classes, books, CD's, and cards to my clients. But what she has written in those books is not who she is in her real life. Her primary goal has been to make money because out of her divorce she has to pay Steven like $30,000 per month plus or something according to her private board posts. Now she is lost. Power, greed and money are her primary motivaters. Love seems to be lost.

I personally don't care where Doreen got her degree she definately knows a great deal about psychology and uses it to confuse, manipulate and control others. She deserves an honorary degree for it because she really has mastered this skill. She particularly preys on recovering alcoholics, co-dependants and those with low self esteem. It's quite strange to watch others be fooled and you wonder don't these people see she is lying.

At her ATP events we were told that we would be watched as ATP's and could loose our certifications if we conducted ourselves inappropriately. I had no idea what that meant. But later it is clear she watches any and everyone. I have no idea how she finds time to write books. Then again maybe she doesn't write them. I notice she co-authors books with people and just adds her name to there book which is mutually beneficial.

Off and on she creates fictional names on the angel message board (a private ATP, AI message board) and pretends to be other people to spy on us, to get to know our secrets and what we are saying. She is very paraniod about what people think of her and always thinks people are trying to get her and destroy her.

She uses the angel therapy message boards to get ideas for her classes and books based on other people knowledge to profit herself but threatens others with lawsuits all the time for copying her work.

It is very important to her to instill a victim-co-dependant mentality for her follows to. Yes she talks about prayer and it is powerful. But the way she presents it is like poor me I can help myself and I am a victim of others.

She encourages others feel sorry for themselves and blame their pasts lives for all the bad things that happen. I was very disappointed that she never uplifted people instead she would just commiserate with them. For someone with an education in Psychology I thought this was strange. But, she needed them to be co-dependant so they would still need her. (It is more profitable to keep people sick then for them to get well.)

She doesn't uplift and inspire. If you are too powerful she will push you out. She will try to destroy your career or get you fired. I have seen her do this to many people. She wants to be the only one in the lime light. If you try to grow in this field she will commit to destroy your career. She doesn't want anyone to take her place. Again this is very strange to me in a spiritual community. But I think a lot of the truth will come out soon. This is the year of integrity. I hope the truth comes out through her. That would be more healing for the entire community of ATP's and AI's and at least preserve some of her integrity. Being authentic at least would allow others to be compassionate with her. Honesty is the best policy. Human beings tend to respect people who tell the truth themselves rather than they were exposed and then appologize later. Doreen I strongly recommend you tell others the truth. You owe it to all of us who trusted you.

Did I mention the whole Dawn Pearce/Doreen Virtue shame? Another time. Isn't Doreen Virtue's brother names Dale Pearce? Don't know if it is true. Just a rumor I guess.

I guess that if she is a fraud she will pay for it sooner or later. All I know is that we can always learn something from everyone. Personally, I take the good and exclude what feels wrong to me. No one is a perfect angel, and nobody should be seen as a God. But, also, I think that Doreen actually does give very positive information that can help anyone. And If she is manipulative, she will get it back. For as long as I do what makes me happy, I have nothing to worry about.

I love communicating with the angels, and I was introduced to them by other means before I knew about doreen. I made my own angel cards as well. God wants us to share love, even with our worst enemies, and why not share our love with the whole world. I'm sure it is more rewarding than to criticize and shame people. If you are truly with God, then it will be easier to understand and accept people.

Practice Love more often.

I guess that if she is a fraud she will pay for it sooner or later. All I know is that we can always learn something from everyone. Personally, I take the good and exclude what feels wrong to me. No one is a perfect angel, and nobody should be seen as a God. But, also, I think that Doreen actually does give very positive information that can help anyone. And If she is manipulative, she will get it back. For as long as I do what makes me happy, I have nothing to worry about.

I love communicating with the angels, and I was introduced to them by other means before I knew about doreen. I made my own angel cards as well. God wants us to share love, even with our worst enemies, and why not share our love with the whole world. I'm sure it is more rewarding than to criticize and shame people. If you are truly with God, then it will be easier to understand and accept people.

Practice Love more often.

By Truthgiver on May 22, 2009 at 02:27 am

Amen, Truthgiver.! I have never been treated so badly after a purchase by any single company ever.

WOW I had no idea! Thank you for this article. I am def. confused many people here write positive spiritual beliefs and at the same time the ones who really know Doreen through ATP or seminars have first had negative/positive experience. I too have read her books and called into the Hay house show I even had a reading done by her daughter in law who ran a site called SeaVision productions with Grant Virtue and all the money I put into readings not much came to fruition but I accept that maybe it wasn't the right time, guidance, but mostly they were all adamant that I would go to the ATP class and I guess its a blessing in disguise because its very expensive.

I noticed that the SeaVision website isn't working does anyone know what happened? Also what is the Pearce thing?

I am stunned and makes me question the authenticity of many Hay House writers?

Doreen.... bummer... anyway, all ye have to do is to stop buying her products! simple as that. God help her. I mean, she'll need it after all the lies she told

Trust me, the whole situation is a scam! I was engaged to her son Charles. The funny thing is that his name is Charles Shank, not Virtue. I was with him for a period of about 1 1/2 years, about 8 (maybe 9) or so years ago. It was when Doreen was first with Steven and she lived in Laguna Beach. Let me tell you, Chuck (he never went by Charles) never believed in the "angels" etc. He was along for the ride because his mommy paid him well. He used to tell me how the whole "angel" situation was a joke. Chuck and Grant were both abandon by Doreen when they were small children and she was in and out of there lives until they were adults. They both worked for her and both of them did not believe one thing that she said. I can say that Grant was a Wiccan and believed in that, thats it.

So to all of the people who make her rich and fly her first class and pay for her stays at 5 star resorts, I feel sorry for you. Yes, this is the only way that Doreen travels. Really, her and her sons are scamming the money out of women who are lonely and vulnerable. Chuck would always comment on how "pathetic" the women are that attended his mothers readings. Trust me, they are all laughing while they cash your checks!

I am now married with a son and to a better man. I just had to comment because I was curious of what had ever happened to Chuck and I was so surprised to see his new identity and career. I really feel bad for the people who think that him and his mother are to be trusted. You believers need to wake up!

Grant Virtue was Wiccan?! Haha, good to know! And, true, Doreen's sons were never "Virtue"; I noticed this when reading the older books Doreen wrote under her acknowledgments (among other interesting things ;) ). How others don't know this astounds me, or maybe everyone else does but just won't say anything.

And what about Dawn Pearce/Doreen Virtue shame? I wanna know!

I will admit, i have seen a couple ATPs and they're one of the best psychics, although I was never realy confident with Doreen Virtue herself. Something about spirituality combined with commercializing and capitalism didn't sit well with me. Plus, the books (which I never bought) seemed so repetitive, almost 'magical' (NOT magickal ;) )...now, I consider myself fairly spiritual and I should endorse the whole "love and light" notion, but I find her books difficult to get into. Almost superficial and fluffy in comparison with other books I've read dealing with spirituality; I really can't take her seriously.

BTW, if you do more research, it's true; Virtue isn't her real last name *but* it's from her first ex husband (I think it's Dwight Virtue). So basically her saying that Virtue is her real last name is a bit of a half-truth.

Virtue is all about money there is nothing she does not do, no producy she does not have on the market. Now she even officiates weddings! I am not saying she does not have a gift but in my opinion she just is greedy for money, I respect the fact people have to eat etc but she is just sheer greedy. You can see proof of this in her May 2010 newsletter.

Doreen Virtue had indeed divorced husband number four, Steven Farmer. It was in her November 2009 newsletter which she has published, available for all members of the public to read. In fact it makes a rather interesting read! Mr Farmer is the persecutor she is the victim! Ms Virtue has stated that the court has ordered her to pay Mr Farmer $35,000 US Dollars a month in alimony.

She further states that she initially wanted to retire from teaching but decided to resume purely based on money due to having to pay alimony to her ex-husband. However, conveniently (in my opinion) she now wants to resume her angel work not for the money but because of her Divine life purpose.

I learned along time ago to focus on what I want not what I don't want.

Maybe you folks might want to do the same.

Get your facts straight. Doreen Virtue graduated from Chapman University, which is not a diploma mill. It is a legitimate degree-granting university, which you would know if you did a simple Internet search.

And instead of trashing other people, take a good look at yourself and why you feel you must publicly condemn someone. Get a life!

By the way, I wonder why when voting on the article, I was only allowed to vote 5 stars. I think your article is crap, and the voting system is faulty. I meant to give it no stars at all, a big zero.

I happen to believe that reality is heavily influenced by our beliefs. If we believe with all our heart and do not doubt, then the angels will help us. If you believe that Christ and/or a Priest is the only way you can connect with God, then it will be true for you.

...for truly I say to you, If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible to you. -Matthew 17:20

See also Mark 11:23-26 (reread the last part. Forgive Doreen.)

And you'll have to excuse my not being able to remember the exact verse on this one (its been a while since I read the Bible last) but I'm fairly certain there is a verse where Jesus tells people that they too can/will perform all these miracles.

And you are probably starting to think about the verses where the Bible says that demons can perform miracles too... I wonder if thats because they too have faith that it will be so.

I've been visited by an angel when I was a Christian, had visions of godesses when I was a Wiccan, had moments of pure bliss in Buddhist meditation, and now I believe in nothing more than belief and have all kinds of interesting deities to choose from... Either I'm a complete nutcase or I have faith the size of a mustard seed.

**And to the commenter who claims to have been with Doreen's son for a short period of time: It probably is a joke; One that has helped thousands (if not millions) of people. Anyone who knows much about her also knows she writes not only about angels but about spirits and goddesses and all kinds of unholy christian crap. May the Flying Spaghetti Monster have mercy on your soul!

I just went back and read the rest of the comments and the thing that sticks out in my mind that I would like to point out (at the risk of sounding very anti-christian even though I'm not against the religion, just its fanatics).

"Amen" means "truth", as Savattra so exhaustively explained. But what she failed to mention is that just prior to it being used in the bible it was also the name of an Egyptian god and the word "amen" was frequently used twice in succession at the beginning or end of Egyptian ritual or prayer. Sound familliar? Verily, Verily, I say unto you, Jesus would have been aware of this too seeing as how (if I can recall my bible studies correctly) he did spend some time in Egypt.

I'm not even going to bother with links and references. Google it or something.

I just went back and read the rest of the comments and the thing that sticks out in my mind that I would like to point out (at the risk of sounding very anti-christian even though I'm not against the religion, just its fanatics).

"Amen" means "truth", as Savattra so exhaustively explained. But what she failed to mention is that just prior to it being used in the bible it was also the name of an Egyptian god and the word "amen" was frequently used twice in succession at the beginning or end of Egyptian ritual or prayer. Sound familliar? Verily, Verily, I say unto you, Jesus would have been aware of this too seeing as how (if I can recall my bible studies correctly) he did spend some time in Egypt.

I'm not even going to bother with links and references. Google it or something.

I have to say, I used to be a HUGE fan of Doreen Virtue. I purchased countless books and frequently engaged in chakra clearings. Not to mention, that I consulted the Oracle Cards regularly. At the time, I was comforted by the angels and to be honest, I still am. The only thing that has changed is my belief and faith in Doreen Virtue.

You see, a few girlfriends and I were planning on attending an ATP course. I was single at the time and working very hard to build a responsible, solid life for myself. I had some personal and very difficult things happen to me in the months leading up to the course which caused my financial situation to be less flexible. A week before the event, I was approximately $35 short. I was too embarrassed to explain this to my friends so I wrote a very heartfelt and honest letter to Doreen explaining what had lead me to that point (which was very legitimate) and requesting to pay the $35 the next week after I got paid. I also volunteered to help out in anyway at the seminar in return for her kindness.

What was the response you may ask? That she was praying for me but that the course had to be paid in full no exceptions. Over $35? This woman is a millionaire! To say I was shocked is an understatement as Doreen portrays herself to be so eager to help. I really exposed myself to her and was planning on paying the rest of the money in a mere week while also volunteering to help in anyway possible! It was absolutely ridiculous. I finally explained the situation to my friends and they were horrified. They of course offered to give me the money but in the end we decided that it was best to not attend at all.

As some have said before, I believe that Doreen may have started out with pure intentions, however it seems that the money and greed have now taken over.

I don't agree with all of her teachings. The parts that I do agree with, I am thankful for. However, I just feel that she is not coming from a pure place of unconditional love.

Another point that a close friend of mine brought up is, if she is so psychic and communes with the angels on a daily basis, why did they not give her better guidance in her love life? Four divorces is quite substantial. It made me wonder, is Doreen Virtue was truly the person she claimed to be.

With that being said, I am not here to argue with others or push my opinon on anyone. This is just my personal experience and opinions and I respect the opinons of all others on the site.

Peace & Love,

Mel

I think, Mel, you might try to realize that when you can't pay for something most businesses will tell you to wait until you can. You want compassion and different terms for yourself because Doreen Virtue is spiritual. However, did it occur to you that if it got around Doreen was less than firm on her course price everyone would be doing the same thing for one reason or another and it would be chaotic and impossible for her to run the business aspect of her life. Because she's a woman doesnt mean if she's not nuturing or compliant 24/7 then it follows she's not spiritual. I don't think Wayne Dyer has people in the back washing dishes for their tickets. She didnt do you a personal favor so you're upset, shocked and resentful and decided not to attend. Did it occur to you that life lessons aren't paved smooth by the angels. That maybe Doreen is going through a learning process in her relationships as we all are? Did you read her books enough to know that Steven might have the male problem of wanting to control women and was envious of her success--and that perhaps she didnt want to deal with it anymore? Did it occur that it might be considerably harder than one thinks to find a man evolved enough to have a balanced relationship with a successful woman?

I suggest you read up on material relating to the writing and compilation of the book you know as the Bible, and do even more reading on forbidden archaeology. You'll find the teachings of fear, guilt, and separation are at the root of most organized religions and purposefully put there, and at the root of humanity's problems and perceptions of God, who by the way is male and female. If you want fairness look more deeply, and if you want self-respect and autonomy then take personal responsibility instead of leaning on others for what you want. And one more thing that might perhaps be of interest; love isn't an emotion, its an energy that permeates everything.

peace,

Lorien

LOL

The people on this site are heated.

Thank you Savattra for bringing this to light.

I read the last few posts and hey Lorien did you not see the part where Mel said she was not here to argue just give her opinion. Compared to the cost of the course $35 isn't that much. That was a mad long post to try to trash her.

LOL You are a loser.

I wonder how many postings are from Doreen herself.

I met her once, because a ex-girlfriend was into her. What the ****!!!! That woman was crazy, I kid you not. My ex spent over $3000 to become an "ATP" (airfare, hotel, food, course, books, cards (wtf)). She was brainwashed. Everything she did was because her "angels" told her to. She even quit her job to "spend time in nature" because the "fairies" told her to. She now has no money, friends, family or clients for that matter. She was sucked into this process after a loss.

Not to offend (Lorien and other crazies on the site) but I think people who are at their lowest are attracted to this thought process. They want to feel love from the angels and talk to loved ones who passed on. It is disgusting what Doreen does to these people she is a money hungry _________. The relationship ended shortly after.

I have read some other posts on relationships ending after Doreen Virtue gets a hold of them.

Bottom Line: Don't waste your time, money, or energy on Doreen Virtue. Don't throw away your relationships or become so disillusioned to quit your job and follow your "life purpose". You may just end up in a gutter...

FYI: I will not come back to view this story or any postings following this. So Losers, haters, Doreen dont waste your time!

OUT--------

Lorien,

I apologize. I forgot to add the most important part. Doreen and I were close friends at one time. We still kept in touch from time to time. I knew her BEFORE she was famous and when she herself was struggling. So I was not just a random person asking for a favor, I was an old friend asking for a small favor.

And sweetheart, I was not planning on washing dishes. I just offered my assistance as a friend to help set up or help with whatever was needed. To be clear, I would have offered anyway.

That is why her response was so cold and callused. She knew very well how responsible I was.

So that it that. The story in a nut shell. Take from it what you will.

I am going to take a cue from Ladies Say What ...

I WILL NOT BE BACK TO WRITE ANY MORE COMMENTS OR EXPLAIN MYSELF FURTHER. SO THERE IS NO NEED TO WASTE YOUR TIME.

I am sorry that you feel this way. If you open your heart and allow the angels to work with you I have no doubt that you will recognize their manifestations in your life. Negativity arises from fear and that is the tone of your article. There is no need to fear what you do not understand.

Before you've practiced, the theory is useless. After you've practiced, the theory is obvious. -David Williams, Ashtanga teacher

In love and light.

This is a load of bollix. Doreen Virtue (Virtue is not her real surname) is a thief, pure and simple. I'd love to see her caught rightly. And she does suck the life out of the vulnerable. Shame on her and her kids who know what she's up to and make a mint themselves on the backs of others suffering

This is a load of bollix. Doreen Virtue (Virtue is not her real surname) is a thief, pure and simple. I'd love to see her caught rightly. And she does suck the life out of the vulnerable. Shame on her and her kids who know what she's up to and make a mint themselves on the backs of others suffering

I am a bit shocked by all the comments about Doreen Virtue. I came across this site whilst doing a general search for Doreen/Angels info. I have been buying her books for a few years now and as I am from Ireland I was staying up late to listen to her show on HayHouse Radio.com. I am unsure what to think now. Although I have never had a real angel experience I have wondered how another can have so much communication from the angelic realms.

I know that her recently ex-husband, Steven Farmer, is demanding alot of $ from the divorce. Do you know that he charges about $300 an hour for a Shamanic reading?!

I notice that alot of people have many negative comments but I really don't want to go down that road.

I am a bit shocked by all the comments about Doreen Virtue. I came across this site whilst doing a general search for Doreen/Angels info. I have been buying her books for a few years now and as I am from Ireland I was staying up late to listen to her show on HayHouse Radio.com. I am unsure what to think now. Although I have never had a real angel experience I have wondered how another can have so much communication from the angelic realms.

I know that her recently ex-husband, Steven Farmer, is demanding alot of $ from the divorce. Do you know that he charges about $300 an hour for a Shamanic reading?!

I notice that alot of people have many negative comments but I really don't want to go down that road.

I am going to add to what I said earlier; I know my last comment was rather non-serious and I do realize that many of the Doreen Virtue-lovers will continue to bash the naysayers by saying spiteful things and negatively rating others' comments.

Like many people who became attracted to New Age, I was at a low point in my life and wanted to seek clarity and meaning behind it. Doreen Virtue was one of the many spiritual leaders whom I had decent respect for; I even bought some of her products. I have even seen a couple of her ATPs, and I enjoyed their wisdom and perspective on how to approach life and other people.

However, as I got more into New Age, I began to realize that relying on this type of guidance constantly could be unhealthy and not necessarily practical to everyday life. In fact, some of Doreen Virtue's teachings do not coincide with what I've read in regards to spirituality; I had to seek out others' teachings within the same genre...it was when I read about others' philosophies I became very disillusioned with Doreen Virtue and did my own research about her.

Now, I'm pretty sure Doreen Virtue had good intentions when she started out with this business. I don't argue that she is entitled to earn the money she makes; this is capitalist America anyway. However, the way she earns it and how she promotes her business makes me question her character. A lot of what she teaches and promotes seems very commercialized, which doesn't sit well with me...I've found other spiritualist teachers who aren't big on commercialization, but were just as (and some even more so) effective in their teachings.

Secondly, there were just some details about her that didn't quite add up/make sense/seem completely factual. For example, her last name. She keeps claiming that Virtue is her real surname (which I found really hard to believe, even when I was into Doreen); however, if you look around on the internet, you will see people state that this was her first husband's last name. His name is Dwight Virtue; he even has a facebook page if you want to look it up. People have known this for years.

And what Jenni P. stated is true: Charles's and Grant's last name is not Virtue but Schenck/Schenk (aka husband #2). Read her older books and look at her acknowledgments to verify this.

I've also wondered a great deal about her being married 4 times. Personally, I would've stopped after the 2nd, but I digress...if she is so adamant about listening to your Angels and the like, wouldn't you think that they would be helpful in guiding her with her love life?

And what an embarrassment that she divorced soulmate/twin flame...who knows, he could've been a control freak like she claimed in her books. However, based on her condescending tone of her November 2009 newsletter (which I'm surprised that a few people picked up on!!!), I am inclined to believe that he is not completely at fault and there is probably more to their marital problems than they are willing to discuss (which, understandably, is none of our business, anyway). They were arranging for a divorce several months before her announcement, although Steven Farmer subtly hinted it in one of his weblogs prior to her announcement. And at least when he talked about his divorce (both through facebook, which is now gone, and Hay House Radio) he seemed remorseful and more diplomatic than Doreen was. At least he didn't make her look bad...I can't say much for Doreen because in between those lines of how she forgives him, she makes him out to be a greedy "gold-digger."

There are other things (such as her getting cosmetic surgery, her lavish tastes, and the veracity of her degrees...claiming she got her degrees from Chapman University, but then editing that she got her PhD from California Coast instead of Chapman...very difficult to keep track of what she got since the story keeps changing!), but I think the one thing that struck me about her was how seemingly cold and nasty she could be behind the scenes. I honestly did not want to believe this, but after hearing more than one account about her attitude (and now more from this page), I'm inclined to believe this as fact.

Which led me to think...why would there be so much negative press against her? Now, I know that there is always a price to becoming famous and that many psychics get a bad rep...however, in *her* case (as well as a couple others such as Sonia Choquette), it seems that some of these criticisms are based on faulty claims she has made about herself and her personal life.

In any case, I will continue to be spiritual...however, I think as a consumer/follower I have the right to know what is being spoken to me.

Like us all - Doreen is a human being. Like us all, she is good and bad.

Personally , I have found the way she talks about things to be down to earth and accessible.

We all have to earn a living - what is wrong with being successful?

I've read many of the comments posted with interest...glad that this is an open, honest discussion and people are bringing many facets of this complex issue to light. For my part, I wanted to add a few things...I have read many of Doreen Virtue's books and been to her seminars and have gotten a lot out of them, while at the same time never letting go of independent, critical thinking...I think it's important to keep "buyer beware" in mind at all times. Nothing in this world is perfect, so, one must ask oneself: "how imperfect am I willing to allow this situation or person be before it or they become intolerable?" While far from perfect, I found Doreen and her books to be of immense help to me at a time of crisis in my life. The books are eloquent in their own way, and Doreen is an excellent teacher. The thing I wanted to add here is that Doreen does not present herself as Miss Perfect, the Angel Lady at all. She doesn't put on a saccharine act. There's a definite edge to her, which has the effect of drawing people toward her even more. She's a naturally charismatic individual with the potential, in my opinion, to have been far more exploitative of her position than she has. I have moved on with my life and no longer need to go to Doreen's events, but that is a sign of how helpful they were. I look back and am glad she and her books and tools were there when I needed them. They were, and still are, a welcome blessing.

Either way at the end of the day taking there is a God (which I believe there is) let him be the judge, as he will judge us all including Doreen.

Earthy Bound you are right the kids last names are Schenk. But Schenk doesn't make the cash Virtue does. The kids dumped their father's name for the money. Hello

Judge? God doesn't judge. I do. I have to decide whether I will by her products or not. God doesn't buy Doreen's books.

Doreen's house in Kona is worth 5 million dollars. It's public record. I have no problem with the money she makes. But she could have waived the $35 for her friend Mel. Doreen makes deals on her classes for people, sometimes payment plans and such. Those of you who just read her books and listen to her radio show don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Many ATP's are afraid to talk about her on this public post because she has everyone scared shitless that she is going to sue them. If you check out private ATP boards not owned by Doreen you could see what they really feel about her. Many are nice to her face and trash her behind her back.

I doubt anyone on this thread wants to hear this, but Steven was my therapist about 10-12 years ago. He was doing spirit guide and shaman work then too but I saw him for conventional psychotherapy. In fact we used to laugh about the "crunchy granola" stuff--he takes the shaman role seriously but he never took himself seriously. He was a tremendously positive influence in my life.

He got me through a bad divorce, and helped me confront a lot of unacceptable behavior going on with my family. He was a very gentle and caring therapist, who also gave me the courage and support to stand up for myself and to love myself unconditionally. And he taught me a hell of a lot about how guys think LOL.

He is definitely one of the most important people that have passed through my life. He retired from psychotherapy some time after he and Doreen started dating, and I know he really enjoyed the idea of being able to focus on his shaman work full-time.

I'm sad that things didn't work out for them and I can't speak to their personal relationship, but Steven being a control freak would be totally out of character from the guy I knew. I know that he gave up his therapy practice at her urging, so maybe the alimony is justified. Just my two cents...

If you take the time to read all this you will understand Doreen. If you know her you will get this: What is a personality disorder? [from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition, 1994, commonly referred to as DSM-IV, of the American Psychiatric Association. European countries use thediagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization.] An enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates markedly from the expectation of the individual's culture, is pervasive and inflexible, has an onset in adolescence or early adulthood, is stable over time, and leads to distress or impairment. A personality disorder is a pattern of deviant or abnormal behavior that the person doesn't change even though it causes emotional upsets and trouble with other people at work and in personal relationships. It is not limited to episodes of mental illness, and it is not caused by drug or alcohol use, head injury, or illness. There are about a dozen different behavior patterns classified as personality disorders by DSM-IV. All the personality disorders show up as deviations from normal in one or more of the following: (1) cognition -- i.e., perception, thinking, and interpretation of oneself, other people, and events; (2) affectivity -- i.e., emotional responses (range, intensity, lability, appropriateness); (3) interpersonal functions; (4) impulsivity. Narcissistic Personality Disorder While grandiosity is the diagnostic hallmark of pathological narcissism, there isresearch evidence that pathological narcissism occurs in two forms, (a) a grandiose state of mind in young adults that can be corrected by life experiences, and (b) the stable disorder described in DSM-IV, which is defined less by grandiosity than by severely disturbed interpersonal relations. The preferred theory seems to be that narcissism is caused by very early affective deprivation, yet the clinical material tends to describe narcissists as unwilling rather than unable, thus treating narcissistic behaviors as volitional -- that is, narcissism is termed a personality disorder, but it tends to be discussed as a character disorder. This distinction is important to prognosis and treatment possibilities. If NPD is caused by infantile damage and consequent developmental short-circuits, it probably represents an irremediable condition. On the other hand, if narcissism is a behavior pattern that's learned, then there is some hope, however tenuous, that it's a behavior pattern that can be unlearned. The clinical literature on NPD is highly theoretical, abstract, and general, with sparse case material, suggesting that clinical writers have little experience with narcissism in the flesh. There are several reasons for this to be so: -- The incidence of NPD is estimated at 1% in the general population, though I haven't been able to discover the basis of this estimate. -- Narcissists rarely enter treatment and, once in treatment, progress very slowly. We're talking about two or more years of frequent sessions before the narcissist can acknowledge even that the therapist is sometimes helpful. It's difficult to keep narcissists in treatment long enough for improvement to be made -- and few people, narcissists or not, have the motivation or the money to pursue treatment that produces so little so late. -- Because of the influence of third-party payers (insurance companies), there has been a strong trend towards short-term therapy that concentrates on ameliorating acute troubles, such as depression, rather than delving into underlying chronic problems. Narcissists are very reluctant to open up and trust, so it's possible that their NPD is not even recognized by therapists in short-term treatment. Purely anecdotal evidence from correspondents and from observations of people I know indicates that selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors, such as Prozac, aggravate narcissists' grandiosity and lack of social inhibition. It has also been suggested that self-help literature about bolstering self-esteem and getting what you want out of life or that encourages the feeling of victimization has aggravating effects on NPD thinking and behavior. -- Most clinical writers seem unaware that narcissists' self-reports are unreliable. This is troubling, considering that lying is the most common complaint about narcissists and that, in many instances, defects of empathy lead narcissists to wildly inaccurate misinterpretations of other people's speech and actions, so that they may believe that they are liked and respected despite a history of callous and exploitative personal interactions. [from Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition, 1994, commonly referred to as DSM-IV, of the American Psychiatric Association. European countries use thediagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization.] A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy.[jma: NPD first appeared in DSM-III in 1980; before that time there had been no formal diagnostic description. Additionally, there is considerable overlap between personality disorders and clinicians tend to diagnose mixes of two or more. Grandiosity is a special case, but lack of empathy and exploitative interpersonal relations are not unique to NPD, nor is the need to be seen as special or unique. The differential diagnosis of NPD is made on the absence of specific gross behaviors. Borderline Personality Disorder has several conspicuous similarities to NPD, but BPD is characterized by self-injury and threatened or attempted suicide, whereas narcissists are rarely self-harming in this way. BPD may include psychotic breaks, and these are uncharacteristic of NPD but not unknown. The need for constant attention is also found in Histrionic Personality Disorder, but HPD and BPD are both strongly oriented towards relationships, whereas NPD is characterized by aloofness and avoidance of intimacy. Grandiosity is unique to NPD among personality disorders, but it is found in other psychiatric illnesses. Psychopaths display pathological narcissism, including grandiosity, but psychopathy is differentiated from NPD by psychopaths' willingness to use physical violence to get what they want, whereas narcissists rarely commit crimes; the narcissists I've known personally are, in fact, averse to physical contact with others, though they will occasionally strike out in an impulse of rage. It has been found that court-ordered psychotherapy for psychopathsactually increases their recidivism rate; apparently treatment teaches psychopaths new ways to exploit other people. Bipolar illness also contains strong elements of grandiosity. See more on grandiosity and empathy and its lack below.]The disorder begins by early adulthood and is indicated by at least five of the following: Translation: Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a pattern of self-centered or egotistical behavior that shows up in thinking and behavior in a lot of different situations and activities. People with NPD won't (or can't) change their behavior even when it causes problems at work or when other people complain about the way they act, or when their behavior causes a lot of emotional distress to others (or themselves? none of my narcissists ever admit to being distressed by their own behavior -- they always blame other people for any problems). This pattern of self-centered or egotistical behavior is not caused by current drug or alcohol use, head injury, acute psychotic episodes, or any other illness, but has been going on steadily at least since adolescence or early adulthood. NPD interferes with people's functioning in their occupations and in their relationships: Mild impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in occasional minor problems, but the person is generally doing pretty well. Moderate impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in: (a) missing days from work, household duties, or school, (b) significant performance problems as a wage-earner, homemaker, or student, (c) frequently avoiding or alienating friends, (d) significant risk of harming self or others (frequent suicidal preoccupation; often neglecting family, or frequently abusing others or committing criminal acts). Severe impairment when self-centered or egotistical behavior results in: (a) staying in bed all day, (b) totally alienating all friends and family, (c) severe risk of harming self or others (failing to maintain personal hygiene; persistent danger of suicide, abuse, or crime). 1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) Translation: Grandiosity is the hallmark of narcissism. So what is grandiose? The simplest everyday way that narcissists show their exaggerated sense of self-importance is by talking about family, work, life in general as if there is nobody else in the picture. Whatever they may be doing, in their own view, they are the star, and they give the impression that they are bearing heroic responsibility for their family or department or company, that they have to take care of everything because their spouses or co-workers are undependable, uncooperative, or otherwise unfit. They ignore or denigrate the abilities and contributions of others and complain that they receive no help at all; they may inspire your sympathy or admiration for their stoicism in the face of hardship or unstinting self-sacrifice for the good of (undeserving) others. But this everyday grandiosity is an aspect of narcissism that you may never catch on to unless you visit the narcissist's home or workplace and see for yourself that others are involved and are pulling their share of the load and, more often than not, are also pulling the narcissist's share as well. An example is the older woman who told me with a sigh that she knew she hadn't been a perfect mother but she just never had any help at all -- and she said this despite knowing that I knew that she had worn out and discarded two devoted husbands and had lived in her parents' pocket (and pocketbook) as long as they lived, quickly blowing her substantial inheritance on flaky business schemes. Another example is claiming unusual benefits or spectacular results from ordinary effort and investment, giving the impression that somehow the narcissist's time and money are worth more than other people's. [Here is an article about recognizing and coping with narcissism in the workplace; it is rather heavy on management jargon and psychobabble, but worth reading. "The Impact of Narcissism on Leadership and Sustainability" by Bruce Gregory, Ph.D. "When the narcissistic defense is operating in an interpersonal or group setting, the grandiose part does not show its face in public. In public it presents a front of patience, congeniality, and confident reasonableness."] In popular usage, the terms narcissism, narcissist, and narcissistic denote absurd vanity and are applied to people whose ambitions and aspirations are much grander than their evident talents. Sometimes these terms are applied to people who are simply full of themselves -- even when their real achievements are spectacular. Outstanding performers are not always modest, but they aren't grandiose if their self-assessments are realistic; e.g., Muhammad Ali, then Cassius Clay, was notorious for boasting "I am the greatest!" and also pointing out that he was the prettiest, but he was the greatest and the prettiest for a number of years, so his self-assessments weren't grandiose. Some narcissists are flamboyantly boastful and self-aggrandizing, but many are inconspicuous in public, saving their conceit and autocratic opinions for their nearest and dearest. Common conspicuous grandiose behaviors include expecting special treatment or admiration on the basis of claiming (a) to know important, powerful or famous people or (b) to be extraordinarily intelligent or talented. As a real-life example, I used to have a neighbor who told his wife that he was the youngest person since Sir Isaac Newton to take a doctorate at Oxford. The neighbor gave no evidence of a world-class education, so I looked up Newton and found out that Newton had completed his baccalaureate at the age of twenty-two (like most people) and spent his entire academic career at Cambridge. The grandiose claims of narcissists are superficially plausible fabrications, readily punctured by a little critical consideration. The test is performance: do they deliver the goods? (There's also the special situation of a genius who's also strongly narcissistic, as perhaps Frank Lloyd Wright. Just remind yourself that the odds are that you'll meet at least 1000 narcissists for every genius you come across.) [More on grandiosity.] 2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love Translation: Narcissists cultivate solipsistic or "autistic" fantasies, which is to say that they live in their own little worlds (and react with affront when reality dares to intrude). 3. Believes he is "special" and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) Translation: Narcissists think that everyone who is not special and superior is worthless. By definition, normal, ordinary, and average aren't special and superior, and so, to narcissists, they are worthless. 4. Requires excessive admiration Translation: Excessive in two ways: they want praise, compliments, deference, and expressions of envy all the time, and they want to be told that everything they do is better than what others can do. Sincerity is not an issue here; all that matter are frequency and volume. 5. Has a sense of entitlement Translation: They expect automatic compliance with their wishes or especially favorable treatment, such as thinking that they should always be able to go first and that other people should stop whatever they're doing to do what the narcissists want, and may react with hurt or rage when these expectations are frustrated. 6. Selfishly takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends Translation: Narcissists use other people to get what they want without caring about the cost to the other people. 7. Lacks empathy Translation: They are unwilling to recognize or sympathize with other people's feelings and needs. They "tune out" when other people want to talk about their own problems. In clinical terms, empathy is the ability to recognize and interpret other people's emotions. Lack of empathy may take two different directions: (a) accurate interpretation of others' emotions with no concern for others' distress, which is characteristic of psychopaths; and (b) the inability to recognize and accurately interpret other people's emotions, which is the NPD style. This second form of defective empathy may (rarely) go so far as alexithymia, or no words for emotions, and is found with psychosomatic illnesses, i.e., medical conditions in which emotion is experienced somatically rather than psychically. People with personality disorders don't have the normal body-ego identification and regard their bodies only instrumentally, i.e., as tools to use to get what they want, or, in bad states, as torture chambers that inflict on them meaningless suffering. Self-described narcissists who've written to me say that they are aware that their feelings are different from other people's, mostly that they feel less, both in strength and variety (and which the narcissists interpret as evidence of their own superiority); some narcissists report "numbness" and the inability to perceive meaning in other people's emotions. 8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him Translation: No translation needed. 9. Shows arrogant, haughty, patronizing, or contemptuous behaviors or attitudes Translation: They treat other people like dirt.

SarahL, I have not read/heard of anything bad about Steven Farmer; actually, the only times I've read negative things about him was through Doreen's books (implying he could be cold and controlling) and the November newsletter (implying greed). Unless someone has info, I have read some very nice things about him, particularly from those who have known him from the past and were personally acquainted with him.

I'm not saying that Doreen was completely at fault, nor completely dishonest; perhaps there were some things that Steven could've worked on. It takes two for a marriage to work. But like I said in my previous posting, he seemed genuinely remorseful about the divorce. In one his blogs that I *believe* was about his marriage with Doreen (he does not mention names, but I am almost positive it is about this marriage), there is some resignation about the situation, despite his previous efforts to save the marriage (meanwhile his wife was resolute to go forward with the divorce). For those who got to read about his statement to Doreen's Nov. newsletter via facebook (before he took it down), he was very diplomatic. He also seemed sad about the divorce when he spoke about it through Hay House Radio.

Honestly, I was mildly appalled when I read the November newsletter, and I knew that through her careful wording, almost everyone was going to side against Steven Farmer (which is exactly what happened). I don't blame anybody for being bitter about their divorce (I really do feel bad for Doreen in that regard), but why would you go out of your way to write so poorly about someone you used to love to the general public, especially when you are trying to set a good example of a spiritual leader? Sure, you are entitled to think it, but to make someone look bad? That was disappointing.

Just to let you know, I don't buy into Steven Farmer's shaman practice, power animal stuff, and the like, and yeah, I do think he charges way too much compared to some other shamans I know and take more seriously. I still can't help but feel a little bad for the guy, though.

Only Doreen and Steven know what went wrong in the marriage and what caused it to break down leading to their divorce. Something must be wrong in Doreen’s life for four marriages to fall apart.

Folks I haven't read Doreen's books nor have I heard about her until today when I read her name on a message board and looked her up...But let me tell all of you...Angels are very real...I went searching for God and his Son Jesus when I was very broken hearted over my mothers crossing, I needed to know the truth, I asked God and his Son through the Holy spirit to show me... so I followed the love energy and signs I believed were given too me as I would know them not how anyone else would but what meant something to me...God and his Son have blessed me through the Holy Spirit with answers and real, that your eyes can see and put in your hand proof! I have photo's! I have over three years of photo data worth in fact...I have about 60 what I call "Wow" photo's and they all came threw the energy of Love prayer to God and his Son Jesus with the Holy spirit living in me! Now...please believe me when I tell you, I get that there are bad Angels and good Angels...but in my view if your encounters bring you closer to God and his Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit than I don't think the Evil one is doing it. Thats the last thing he would want...LoL... On the other hand...if you have fear, or evil thoughts than I am thinking...its from the evil one for his tools are fear, hate, uglyness and not of love...if you find your feeling that then check yourself in with God and his Son I say...God will never forsake you and your never alone...So feel free to look at my photo's at @whosoeverbelieves.net I put my journey on that free website and feel free to look at my photo's on my facebook page TudieHager in the "Little Bit Of Heaven In My Own Backyard" folder... I have photo's of the "Light" Huge Angels, Flying Horsemen...and a few other amazing souls... I believe Angels travel here on earth in an energy form of Orbs...and souls that visit also travel in Orbs but the color ones are for sure Angels... I will not say that I know everything but I do get love energy and when it comes from God and his Son, you know it! Just a little info... We were hit by a Tornado here in 2007 on Ground Hogs Day, I think at least 13 souls crossed over that day along with alot of farm animals and animals of the Forest, thats alot of energy leaving at one time... and the Nation was ask to pray for us at the Superbowl that year. Right here on this spot all those love prayer energys was sent! I believe its the power of prayer in love to God and his Son and with the help of the Holy Spirit that will help us all to connect to the love of God and his Son and his Angels and for sure the Holy Spirit...and it was God's good grace, nothing I did but believed, that allow me to take these photos...I know one thing for sure...this is all much bigger than me...and angry, evil energy is not of God nor from his Son no matter what label you put on why your doing it...Good news though...in the end we will all know the truth because none of us gets out of this alive! LoL I believe anyone can be healed by God's love and grace and anyone can be saved by Jesus.. So be a "who so ever" and believe...we are all just on a journey for our own souls growth...I hope all will feel blessed knowing Angels really do live among us...know its really all about Energy...which do you chase...love energy or fear energy...remember we are all Spiritual beings having a Human experience...so be kind and know your soul is always being watched even if you don't believe it...

Tudie

Folks I haven't read Doreen's books nor have I heard about her until today when I read her name on a message board and looked her up...But let me tell all of you...Angels are very real...I went searching for God and his Son Jesus when I was very broken hearted over my mothers crossing, I needed to know the truth, I asked God and his Son through the Holy spirit to show me... so I followed the love energy and signs I believed were given too me as I would know them not how anyone else would but what meant something to me...God and his Son have blessed me through the Holy Spirit with answers and real, that your eyes can see and put in your hand proof! I have photo's! I have over three years of photo data worth in fact...I have about 60 what I call "Wow" photo's and they all came threw the energy of Love prayer to God and his Son Jesus with the Holy spirit living in me! Now...please believe me when I tell you, I get that there are bad Angels and good Angels...but in my view if your encounters bring you closer to God and his Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit than I don't think the Evil one is doing it. Thats the last thing he would want...LoL... On the other hand...if you have fear, or evil thoughts than I am thinking...its from the evil one for his tools are fear, hate, uglyness and not of love...if you find your feeling that then check yourself in with God and his Son I say...God will never forsake you and your never alone...So feel free to look at my photo's at @whosoeverbelieves.net I put my journey on that free website and feel free to look at my photo's on my facebook page TudieHager in the "Little Bit Of Heaven In My Own Backyard" folder... I have photo's of the "Light" Huge Angels, Flying Horsemen...and a few other amazing souls... I believe Angels travel here on earth in an energy form of Orbs...and souls that visit also travel in Orbs but the color ones are for sure Angels... I will not say that I know everything but I do get love energy and when it comes from God and his Son, you know it! Just a little info... We were hit by a Tornado here in 2007 on Ground Hogs Day, I think at least 13 souls crossed over that day along with alot of farm animals and animals of the Forest, thats alot of energy leaving at one time... and the Nation was ask to pray for us at the Superbowl that year. Right here on this spot all those love prayer energys was sent! I believe its the power of prayer in love to God and his Son and with the help of the Holy Spirit that will help us all to connect to the love of God and his Son and his Angels and for sure the Holy Spirit...and it was God's good grace, nothing I did but believed, that allow me to take these photos...I know one thing for sure...this is all much bigger than me...and angry, evil energy is not of God nor from his Son no matter what label you put on why your doing it...Good news though...in the end we will all know the truth because none of us gets out of this alive! LoL I believe anyone can be healed by God's love and grace and anyone can be saved by Jesus.. So be a "who so ever" and believe...we are all just on a journey for our own souls growth...I hope all will feel blessed knowing Angels really do live among us...know its really all about Energy...which do you chase...love energy or fear energy...remember we are all Spiritual beings having a Human experience...so be kind and know your soul is always being watched even if you don't believe it...

Tudie

Archangel Michael, please come to this message board now and help everyone involved. Please lift away all negative energy and anger from all the posts here and infuse them with light and love.

Thank you.

Archangel Michael, please come to this message board now and help everyone involved. Please lift away all negative energy and anger from all the posts here and infuse them with light and love.

Thank you.

There are no citations or academic sources used for this article. There are many fallacies used in your debate and article, including the posts from the Catholic lawyer. Who used a bevy of fallacies and intellectually dishonest arguments in her debate. If you want to be honest Savattra, try using deductive reasoning and logical arguments in your debates, otherwise that's a totally bullshit argument and nobody should agree with the OP or you.

Who cares what anybody believes?

Why must you exploit people?

WTF is that going to do? I agree she is probably a fraud but why must you waste your life exploiting others? How many Christian organizations do this? Thousands... I have watched some do it in my neighorhood at the expsense of others so mind you it's common in all religions.

GROW UP!

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide03.html

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Mental-Slavery-Breaking-Thinking/dp/0982654707/ref%3Dsr_1_1%20ie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1272646809%26sr%3D8-1

The gods of one faith are the angels, saints, or supernatural beings of other faiths.

Most of what you stated in your article about the Old Testament isn't true. The kings of the ten tribes of Israel still worshipped Baal even when worshipping and professing allegiance to Yahweh. They only critcized Baal, never did they outlaw the worship of BAAL! Jews and Judaism have no developed beliefs in angels, they only maintain that humans are superior to angels. Angels themselves have no power in Judaism. People are the only opposing force of Yahweh and physical evidence certainly supports that we are the only source of evil. Satan and othe entities have always merely been metaphors for inner battles and universal battles. Satan=Attorney, inner prosecutor, Our adversary in judgment, angel of death(doens't mean evil)

Leviathan is a symbol of universal evil, too: He is possibly the serpent in the garden and he represents universal primeval chaos in metaphor. Keep this in mind. Before jumping to conclusions again!

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/2007/08/jewish-vs-christian-angels.html

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/2006/12/did-satan-fall-devil-is-in-details.html

This is an highly academic and approved source for all knowledge of Judaism, although, there are many missing texts and artifacts that show up now and then.

The pagan network listed on the site has to do with the fact that Jews have never been specifically anti-"pagan" and Llewellyn asked to carry the book. They never have completely rejected paganism just like the fact that not every Jew is a Zionist... Really, It all depends on which reformation and time in history you wish to discuss in Jewish history.

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/search?q=demons

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/search?q=hell

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/b/baal.html

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/2006/12/did-satan-fall-devil-is-in-details.html

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/search?q=satan

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.com/search?q=jesus

The New Age lies just as much as all those churches that develop so that pastor doesn't have to pay taxes anymore. How about those Christian groups that advertise thinking "positively" just to make money? You don't think they are/were spiritual? There are just as many good new agers as there are pseudoscientific, dishonest new agers.

http://www.cinemind.com/atwater/

Here's a good one. She even does runes to help people and pay for her books she creates to give back to charity. She doesn't keep any money but gives proceeds to charity and to her friends. She suffers and even lives on the streets because she devotes her life to helping others.

He doesn't use money from his book for personal gain and he freely shares his experience free of charge even though he has a book out.

How many Christians have you met that create sell-out books in the evangelical world and Christian world?

It's truly the same motivation and you'll see it everywhere....

http://www.melvinmorse.com/light.htm

http://www.mellen-thomas.com/

Just finished reading Healing With the Fairies. It really resonated with me. I've read most of the postings since 2007 and can only comment that we all come from different perspectives based upon our own past and ego beliefs. For whatever judgments might be thrown at Doreen, don't kill the message. Teach only love, for that is what you are.

Brian

Those who could not hear the music, would think us crazy as we danced. Your article is very non factual. I paid less than $800 last year to attend a week long experience taught by Doreen. Why less than $800? Because she is one of the most generous people I have ever had the pleasure to meet. It was a gift to myself and other attendees of less than 50% of the standard charge. It was her birthday and Doreen gifted us! The standard fee is less than $1800 which can be a verified fact on her site if you wished to be factual. I am sure as a fellow Catholic truth has value to you. It would be as if I share incorrect information as to you hourly rate in your law practice. So please check the information. Do the proper thing and recant what is in error. As in all things of God, it is by faith. Believing is seeing. I see and therefore I know Doreen is legitimate. She is a great conduit of God and her music comes in many forms. You really should meet her. God Bless You and I am off to vigil mass, to again share in Christs miracle and see God's angels that are as plentiful as the stars in the sky. NAMASTE

There is so much hate and fear in so many of your comments. It is not fair to attack 'new age' as a group. It is so diverse and filled with all different kinds of smaller types of practitioners. Like 'Christianity' is used as an umbrella term Catholics and Mormons are not the same. There are 'quacks' and phonies and jerks in every religion. I don't see how working with love and light is so dangerous. Living without them is. True pagans or 'new agers' of most walks don't believe in any form of manipulation. It is the media that highlights the most extreme folks for ratings. It is especially against the moral laws of wiccans and similar to do anything to harm anyone. I am an Indigo/Crystalline adult with a Christian upbringing. I don't understand how someone claiming to be an 'Indigo' who are healers and bridges to other higher dimensions could be so hateful and closed minded. God is too big not to have multiple ways to him/her/source etc. I have become sort of a universalist or gnostic (seeker of truth) to get away from the restrictions of fear dominated religions. I love God, but don't feel the need to fear God, because I trust God. If you put half of the energy you put into spewing hatred into some sort of loving action like volunteer work, then your energy would be better spent. I feel like some defending needed to be done here. Us Indigos do have 'warrior' tendencies. =) Love and blessings to all of you that are reading this. If you are angry (As I was reading this) send up a little prayer and release it and send a prayer for ignorance and fear of change to dissolve in the world.

Can i please ask a question because im gettin scarred now-i discovered angels about 2 years ago and ever since im alot calmer and happier.i talk to my angels every day for protection while im driving, to keep me safe on a night out and also help me to be a better person!!! i also talk to god and ask him to help me be a better person and to help me to love myself and others!!! iv purchased book and oracle cards by doreen virtue and other authors and they all give the same message which is to be a better person and love god- how can that we wrong? if it was evil, why would we be told to love others and god?? all i no is because of my angels im closer to god and i thank him for bringing them into my life!!!! iv never read the bible but i no god loves me and i love god and if i go through my life by being the most honest i can be and love others and be happy then i will go to heaven!!!!

Can i please ask a question because im gettin scarred now-i discovered angels about 2 years ago and ever since im alot calmer and happier.i talk to my angels every day for protection while im driving, to keep me safe on a night out and also help me to be a better person!!! i also talk to god and ask him to help me be a better person and to help me to love myself and others!!! iv purchased book and oracle cards by doreen virtue and other authors and they all give the same message which is to be a better person and love god- how can that we wrong? if it was evil, why would we be told to love others and god?? all i no is because of my angels im closer to god and i thank him for bringing them into my life!!!! iv never read the bible but i no god loves me and i love god and if i go through my life by being the most honest i can be and love others and be happy then i will go to heaven!!!!